I have met people I met online, all the ones I actually went out with were from nerve.com. I had quite a bit of amazing sex, but only a couple I felt like calling back. Overall, though. I ended up with two really great friends, which is a rate just about as good as meeting people anywhere else.

I was going to edit this after I noticed it said "met people I met online" but I don't know how else to say it. I have "met people in real life after an intial online introduction" but that doesn't really sound the way I talk. I am wrecked beyind repair right now so probably nothing I say is how I talk. Or maybe exactly how I talk when I am not trying to sound smart for you guys

I hope your experience was just bad luck. The two most attractive men I have ever known are Objectivists, and I know several others who are Objectivists that I would (or have:)) go to bed with in a second. I am going to the ARI conference this year, and I really hope I will meet a few more wonderfully attractive, fun, intelligent Objectivist guys.

Kelly

P.S. You aren't so bad yourself! Where do you live?

Try having a surgeon tell you about his latest adventure in the operating room -- in graphic detail -- over pork chops and mashed potatoes.

Yeah, baby.

(To be clear: My disdain is not with regard to the food.)

-- The Gilded Fork

Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

There are indeed drawbacks to online dating - in fact, the reason it's been years for me is because I had a couple bad experiences which soured me on it. On the flip side, however, I know people for whom it's worked out.

I was just throwing it out there as an option...I simply didn't think Kelly should be throwing her hands up in desperation after an unfulfilling experience at a lesbian bar. Bars, while they can provide a quick fix to a sexual dry spell, can't be any worse than online dating in terms of their ability to yield a meaningful romantic relationship.

While I'm happy at the apparent preponderance of Objecto-babes at this site (mmmmm....Objecto-babes), my only attempt at an Objecto-fling over the years only underlined for me that I was less likely to meet Ms. Right in the Objectivist world than I was elsewhere. Of course, as with everything else, I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Duplicate deleted

But once again, inking is still sexy.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

That's what phone numbers are for, you talk before you set the date.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

The worst thing about online dating is seeing a totally hot person on the other side, only to meet the person and hear the most annoying voice with the worst nerd laugh. AHHH!!!

Wow. That sounded overly cerebral. Especially on this thread.

Maybe I should take Linz's advice and get plastered before I post.

I don't try online dating anymore. A checklist or conversation at a distance doesn't tell me much. For me, at least, the in person interaction can't be predicted. And whether or not someone is an Objectivist in terms of conscious committment is heavily outweighed by their actual way of coming at the world on a gut, sense of life level.

Kelly,

Never having been a frustrated single bi woman, I can't offer you any advice from the trenches, but online dating come to mind. It's been years since I've dabbled in that myself as a hetero, but I know that the better sites offer you extensive room to put your thoughts down in writing. I imagine the gay/bi sites let people expound on the butch/femme dichotomy (and related issues), which would enable you to screen and weed out a variety of candidates who might otherwise waste your time at some bar.

The fact is you're in a niche market and opportunities won't just fall into your lap, but that doesn't mean that there isn't another woman out there who isn't a good fit for you. Good luck!

Pete

PS- And when you next yearn for the company of a man, come to Chicago!

Like you mind such expostulations.

-- The Gilded Fork

Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

Jesus H. Christ, this place sweats and heaves like an orgiastic coven on Devil's Night!

I think that for many if not the majority of lesbians its not just a strong sexual attraction that they experience but something even more deeply biological and thereby psychological -- they feel very strongly masculine and therefore more comfortable when portraying a masculine persona in clothing and attitude. In fact, they feel more like themselves that way.

The bi-sexual woman, I presume, would have less of a masculine biological drive, if you will, and therefore feel totally comfortable in a feminine persona.

Just an hyposthesis.

Was that before or after he bent me over the rail? I think it was after.

He's a hussy.

-- The Gilded Fork

Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

It's true that hair and makeup aren't close to all there is to femininity, but girls who shave their heads and wear boys clothes and no makeup are projecting a certain image, and they are doing it on purpose. Just as I purposely do my hair, put on makeup and choose jeans that show my curves when I go out. I don't think there is anything wrong with being butch, it's just not what I am attracted to. A girl dancing up behind me and grinding a strap-on penis into my ass (that actually happened to me!) just doesn't turn me on.

Anyway, Ash, you give some good advice about not meeting girls at gay bars. The only problem is that I love to dance so much and I want to get to dance with girls too! Even the way people partnered up for some hiphop dancing was very divided down the butch/femme line.

Guess I'll just have to wait till Jennifer comes to visit and dance with her! It's amazing how all kind of orientation lines get crossed on our dance nights out. Remember when Jason licked my boobs? I've never been so shocked in all my life!

Kelly

I think there's a big difference between female and feminine. Most of the lesbians I know aren't particularly interested either in being overly femme or underly femme.

The thing is, the outward projection of masculinity and femininity is what people see first. And first impressions count for quite a lot. It's one big benefit of meeting people online to start with. You can create first impressions based on something a little less surface.

Also... when it comes to projecting masculinity or femininity, it's often things other than haircuts and makeup that show themselves the most strongly. Body language is a huge component as well.

--
"As an American, being mocked by people from third world hell holes is a bit like being made fun of by the retarded kid on the playground. I know I should be insulted, but I can't stop laughing." --the Pixiest

Good reply, American Girl.

I've always considered butch lesbians as making more of a political statement than a sexual one. And, maybe that's why I see them as being more inclined to militancy and the bureaucracy.

"If I were ever to cross the fence it would most definitely be for a curvy, delicious-looking female."

Jen, living in a country with 44 million sheep has given me a *great* deal of experience helping people over fences. Just holler and I'll bend that wire real low

If you're ever in Carbondale, IL during the school year, my girlfriend is bi.

Adam
www.adambuker.com

Fred writes:
Someone get the smelling salts. Cathcart just fainted.

Now, now, Fred, that's out of line. I don't need smelling salts.

Speaking of advice, the next step is advice on finding lipstick-bi couples.

(Leans in attentively.)

Beautiful new photo, Ash!

-- The Gilded Fork

Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

Hi Kelly:

I have found dyke bars to be a bad place to meet women, although I have found regular bars not the greatest place to meet people, either. Much of the time, they are full of pretty butch girls. I don't really have an answer for that, but my suspicion is that most girls who are "gay identified" enough to want to go to a specialty bar are into the "lifestyle" aspect of it very much (as well as the aspect of being sexually attracted to girls). Kind of like the geeks who dress up as Chewbacca and wait in line to see Star Wars are much more into the lifestyle than they typical person who likes Star Wars but finds that watching the movies can fit into a larger, more diverse realm of hobbies and interests.

Anytime I've done "gay" things like vaca in P-town or Rehobeth, attend gay film or book events, go to pride parades/events, etc. I find a much more butch crowd than in my everyday life. In my everyday life, I have a gorgeous girlfriend who is curvy and sexy (she also rides a motorcycle and plays the drums, but that isn't unfeminine, is it?). We are good friends with a couple who are beautiful, smoking hot, and extremely feminine.

I can tell you that you will find a more diverse crowd of girls who like girls if you attend or take part in women's sporting events, especially lacrosse, field hockey, and soccer. Also, at lots of live music events for singer/songwriter chicks there are tons of girly lesbians. Or try craigslist or nerve.com to hook up with les-bi chicks as friends. They might not be what you are looking for, but they might be friends with someone who is.

And Jen brings up an interesting point about pursuing "lipstick" vs. "butch" women. I guess it is obvious to me when a woman is very butch, and that isn't so attractive to me outwardly... but just as I have dated men who were super-manly as well as those who were downright effeminate, sometimes attraction is slippery. In my relationship there are two women, and I am sometimes asked "who's the man?" The answer is that neither of us is a man, nor do we "aspire" to it. We both take on a number of roles. We both contribute financially, but one of us is the primary breadwinner. We both cook and clean, but one of us does them more often. In bed we both ask for what we want, but one of us is more dominant. M always takes out the trash, and I always deal with mice. We are both a handful and both like to party more that most people could deal with. We both like sports more than most people could deal with. I don't think of those things as being essentially masculine and feminine, but in man-woman relationships they can be blamed on that. Having two women in the house clarifies that most things are just aspects of personality, or bad habits/behavior.

Someone get the smelling salts. Cathcart just fainted.

I find this quite curious, as it seems that if a woman embraced feminine qualities as something to worship, she would pursue something more "lipstick" than "butch" (if masculinity is the desire, why go with a substitute?).

If I were ever to cross the fence it would most definitely be for a curvy, delicious-looking female. Otherwise it just wouldn't make sense to me.

My two cents, for what that's worth.

-- The Gilded Fork

Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.