What is an ATHEIST ?

Rex Wilkinson's picture
Submitted by Rex Wilkinson on Wed, 2006-06-21 15:07

An atheist is someone who believes there is no god.To realy accept there is no god allso means there is no devil,heaven,life after death,ghosts,spirits,reincarnation or magic,witch craft,voodoo etc.If you imagine any of these to be real YOU ARE NOT AN ATHEIST,you are a confused agnostic as are all agnostics,too confused to make a decision either way.I don't know how any agnostic can call themselves an intellectual when to be an agnostic is to addmit you are confused.!!!!The western civilisation was founded on the idea that their god is real,this is a lie!our whole society is based on a lie.The dark ages never stopped,people are dying just as fast and for the same insane reason they ever were,the irrational belief there is a god.


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Spaced out man

Rex Wilkinson's picture

Greg I have no problem with putting a space after I puntuate but as a total begginer self taught computers and typing this is my first blog site and I'm still learning about the whole thing realy,I was never too worried at school about perfect punctuation and find it cute that we still try and use correct English.I thought North Korea was into some crazy mix of confucism and taosim,and I'm sure I'v spelt those wrong.So forgive my indifference to my computer skills but I'm having fun how about you?

Rex

Greg Mullen's picture

Rex are you aware that North Korea is an atheist state? Just curious. Also have you checked out Anton Thorn’s Objectivist Atheology site? If not he has some really good stuff on his site, just google it.

P.S. Why don't you space after you punctuate?

Trust in self

Rex Wilkinson's picture

Craig I think I am one of the most self reliant self indulgent people in here and in some ways am living this philosophy I'm not supposed to understand.I don't quote Ayn Rand or any other philosopher usualy because I'm self reliant and prefer to share my thoughts.I'm out on a limb here with almost no support or books to refer to but I feel valid,equal and hold my head up high even with bad spelling etc I feel as though I make a contribution,I make a difference.I think the American people have been sucked in by the fundementalists play on words regarding atheism.If atheism is a void then is theism the filling of that void?theism is an illusion,nothing,atheism is real.

Man

Landon Erp's picture

I think one thing that's struck me about your stance is you're stuck on god and haven't moved onto mysticism. Of course there's no god, but there also is no such thing as faries, demons, and a lot of supernatural phenomenon is just people purposfully unfocusing their minds until they see "miracles."

That and it seems like though you've discoverd one of the biggest falacies (god) well to paraphrase Leonard Peikoff You're offering as a solution to one of the biggest problems facing this world some of the central tenents of that idea.

Humanity came from monkeys... we are not still monkeys. Humans are essentially no longer effected by biological evolution (IE people with illnesses which would be a death sentance in the wild live long happy productive lives. Humanity is now guided by memetic evolution or the evolution of ideas.

The flaw with religion is not that it has too high of a view of man but too weak, pathetic, of a view of man.

Man the sinful, man the wretch, man incapable of its own salvation man incapable of achievement or happiness away from god, man who came from dirt. That is the view of man religion offers. There is no talk of freewill (in any positive light), acheivement (in any self contained light away from the concept of god), or true heroism in religion's view of man.

I view man as heroic, as the pinacle of evolutionary development, as independant (both from his fellow man or any ficional idea he dreams up and calls real).

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

God is the Devil

Rex Wilkinson's picture

Thank you for your patience Victor I do try and understand the responses I get and I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that the realisation that there is no god only excludes god.When monkey invented god the devil and heaven were added to the story as the story grew,they are one and the same story.The devil is the bad side of god invented to explain why if there is god do bad things happen.We could call the devil the evil god,but it's still god.Heaven is gods place,invented to be the carrot to dangle infront of the masses to get them to want to follow.If you take away god then you remove the whole story.What belief's do you hold that are part of the god story,are you trying to leave room for life after death?

Civilization and Its Meaning

Craig Ceely's picture

Rex, you have been advised to read and consider Ayn Rand before you post very much at this site. Clearly, you have chosen not to take that advice.

She has discussed two archtypes of social leader, the Mystics of the Mind (the Witch Doctors) and the Mystics of Muscle (the Attilas). In other words, those who put their trust in a god or gods and those who put their trust in force, or the State. New Zealand does both. You might think about that fact.

There is a third choice, however: one can put one's trust in one's own self.

New Zealand will never be properly civilized until its per capita firearms ownership approaches that of Texas.

Uh when were nuclear weapons

Marnee's picture

Uh when were nuclear weapons outlawed? They are controlled, yup, and only those free countries that can be trusted with them have them are or at least should be permitted to have them.

You should be thanking AMERICA that you are free because it had the audacity to be fundamentalist about liberty and self-defense and invented weapons that could and did destroy and deter REAL fundamentalists -- Communists, Nazis, etc.

Rex, you are nuts.

Ross Elliot's picture

Rex, you are nuts. You're an A-Grade, certifiable, fucking loon.

Normally, I'd try to engage someone like yourself but quite frankly you're shovelling enough shit to fertilise the Sinai and I simply don't have gumboots that big.

You're obviously a one-issue sorta guy who hasn't been able to integrate his atheist position into the larger concepts of rational self-interest & individual liberty.

In fact, you're just another collectivist in atheist's clothing.

By the way, ask someone to buy you a box of punctuation marks for Christmas. Just the basics: apostrophes, periods, ems. They're quite cheap.

Marnee with guns a blazing

Rex Wilkinson's picture

After the west had wiped out most of the pacific's native people with germ warefare they decided they had better outlaw the use of germ warefare because they knew how effective it was.After they had made and used nuclear weapons of mass destruction they decided they had better outlaw them to.The point I was making Marnee was that the number of guns in America points to the idea that you are a fundementalist country.And the fact that 90% of you can't tell the difference between fantasy and fact sugests that you have a long way to go before you are as civilised as NZ.

The only problem is a whole

Marnee's picture

The only problem is a whole lot of fundementalists running round with guns is a recipe for madness....

Yes it leads to revolutions for liberty and crazy things like Rights and peace and happiness and self-defense and justice! Its madness over here I tell ya. I live in a state where it is both perfectly legal to have your guns blazing AND carry concealed. I mean its like the shoot-out at the OK Corral out here every day, I tell ya. Yea madness.

Rex it is obvious you know nothing about the US and you have bought in to the lies and distortions -- hook line and sinker.

Marnee

Rex Wilkinson's picture

Have you ever noticed as you look around the world that all the fundementalist countries have a love of the gun,Iraq and Iran Afganistan America,the righteous like to have guns so they can take the law into their own hands and do gods work if needed.The only problem is a whole lot of fundementalists running round with guns is a recipe for madness,I don't think I will be visiting America anytime soon,I would probably go the same way John Lennon did.90% of your people call themselves religious,now thats scary!!!

Funding the madness

Rex Wilkinson's picture

Ross I aggree with everything you have said about NZ's secular democracy,but I don't aggree America is less crazy,In NZ Telecom has been ordered to unbundle but it's not happening anytime soon,250 years ago the British declared a secular democrcy but it's not happening anytime soon.I think we are being conned.The fundementalists never lost power they just went along with it long enough so the next generation wouldn't be so aware.The American President said that god told him to go to war!so the guy hears voices and is intouch with god,I would put him in a mental hospital,and if you think thats not a religious dictatorship what is.

Ross that was terrific.

Marnee's picture

Ross that was terrific.

Thank you!

Rex, while I give you kudos

Ross Elliot's picture

Rex, while I give you kudos for your passionate defence of atheism, you've got this one backwards.

NZ is a *far less* secular society than the US. By secular I mean the degree to which the state supports or upholds religious beliefs.

In NZ, at Easter, we have *enforced* public holidays on Good Friday & Easter Monday. It's illegal to open your business on Good Friday. Likewise with Christmas Day. The only reason for that is the religious significance of those days for mystics.

Also, we have bible studies taught in state schools, which parents have to specifically decline for their kids. Catholic and other religious schools have been integrated into the state system and receive the bulk of their funding from the taxpayer.

We have state funding of religious organisations through various government departments. We have massive financial support of the primitive mysticism of the Maori culture in the guise of cultural equality. Parliament is opened with a prayer. Government events are begun with a Maori ceremony comprised of nothing but mystic references. And on and on.

Heavens above, our national anthem, God Defend New Zealand, is a sustained plea to the Almighty for protection. On the other hand, The Star Spangled Banner is Francis Scott Key's tribute to the heroes of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812.

You shouldn't confuse the right and choice of people to hold religious views with a state sanction of those views. Further, most Americans that I've met have a very practical, Deist view of their God. Read the Founding Fathers to get a grip on that.

God Bless America!!

Get your act together

Marnee's picture

Hey there Rex, you just described DEMOCRACY, in a nutshell. Rule by the majority! Gratefully the US is not a democracy, techinically. You will have a democracy whether or not its a religious majority or an atheist majority. Majority rule, *rule by the mob*, is evil in either case.

How does an atheist make it less of a dictatorship? I guess its a benevolent tyanny when your team is winning and evil when the other team is winning?

And if you havent noticed we still have free speech in these here western countries. The other side gets to have its say all it wants. Atheism is not popular. Thankfully individual rights and a secular system still seems to be or at least some semblance of the notion.

When was the last time you were in the US that makes you such an expert in American ideas & politics? Do you think the NZ news media portrays the US honestly? Your notion is nothing more than conspiracy theory.

Democracy in America

Rex Wilkinson's picture

I believe a democracy is where the other side of the arguement is given equal opurtunity.Where there is an even playing field.If the existing power makes the rules to maintain power and keep the oposition from getting any funding,how is that not a dictatorship.It does not matter which party we elect? we are still re'electing the church because the church has got them both by the balls and always has had.The western civilisation was set up for the church and still today here in NZ which is no where near as church based as the US we still have our beloved Prime minister saying "will maintain true religion"they are still in power and not until an atheist party wins the election with an atheist candidate will we have arrived at a democracy.The NZ government doesn't discriminate against atheism,their just not very good at applying,none of them have been accepted yet,but this is not discrimation,realy.

And you keep sayin' it,

Ross Elliot's picture

And you keep sayin' it, Marn!

I am American

Marnee's picture

Gees Rex. If you dont know much about something, then dont talk about it as if you do. First Ayn Rand is a fascist and now the US is run by the Catholic Church?!?

President Bush is not Catholic, he is Evangelist. The Catholic Church doesnt "vote in anyone" and if Im not mistaken they tend to be Democrat, anyway (Bush is Republican). We have had primarily Protestent Presidents. I beleive it was Kennedy who was the only Catholic President.

America doenst have a problem with religion. It has a problem with irrationalism.

In fact, the Catholics I know are pretty cool and believe in secularism and individualism.

Im just sayin.

American Politics

Landon Erp's picture

I think one of the problems in American politics is that you never really know how much religion is lip service. With the liberals you know exactly what they're going to do that will ultimatly be a problem... the conservatives on the other hand split pretty evenly between advocating good political ideas and pushing theocracy.

Granted a lot of it is just the show that everyone feels compelled to move on, but it gets scary not knowing when the only people advocating any good ideas are going to blindside you with some big stupid new religious ordinance further pissing on the wall of seperation between church and state.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Good on you Landon

Rex Wilkinson's picture

We all need to take every opurtunity to replace ignorance with reality.I don't know much about American politics but it seems to me that America is sliding backwards into fundementalism,that your catholic church votes in your president and the fundementalists are often flexing their muscles and winning.From memory America has about 90% of it's citizens claim to be religeous,compared with about 50% of Kiwi.You have a much bigger problem with religion than we do.The world pole and documentary on religion rated America as one of the most religeous countries in the world.Just under Iran and Nigeria,so the world see's America as a fundementalist country.

Rex

Landon Erp's picture

I can definitly relate to your issues with government funding of religion (I'm not that familiar with NZ policies other than the occaisional snippet I hear from Linz or others posting here).

The key thing with Objectivism is about moving beyond any particular offense and ALWAYS going after the bigger problem. The government shouldn't have the power to take stolen capital (taxes) and use it to subsidize things. Companies, individuals, and ESPECIALLY religious groups.

But I sympathize with your personal issues, though I ultimatly see it as simply a series of artificial hoops the government has presented for you which should never have been a factor in the first place.

In the US the biggest thing in favor of religion from the government fincancially is the tax exempt status they get... which I'm on the fence about because I think it's wrong to fovor religion... but I would like to see the practice extended beyond religion and I'm affraid that by fighting that route I might ultimatly be shooting myself in the foot.

But the reason I've taken on your choice of wording "outlaw religion" is because I would really hate to see the power of the government extend to the level of being able to pass "thought crime law" is very scary to me.

To give you a little of my context I live in an area of the country that's sort of an informal portion of the "bible belt" (a large group of states with heavy religious popluations and laws to match). My state recently passed a precedent against "indoctrinating your child with non-mainstream religion."

The particular case involved a couple who were raising their children Wiccan (if you're not familiar with this religion it's a very passive and tolerant form of neo-pagansim). While I hold their religion as false and ultimatly harmful THE GOVERNMENT HAS TOLD THEM THAT THEY HAVE NO SAY IN WHAT VALUES THEY TEACH THEIR OWN CHILDREN!

Imagine the atheist implications of this Rex.

And I'm not for ignoring it and hoping goes away. I confront it every time it confronts me... but there are other things confronting me as well. Socialist political programs, anti-progress movements there are litterally dozens of them. Like I said earlier being an Objectivist means I confront all similar issues together and point out the lack of distinction by doing so (the religious right wanting to pass laws against victimless crimes and the muslim terrorists who wish to destroy people who do not follow their religious edicts).

But the biggest thing I try to do is lead by example. I'm an atheist, but I'm by far the most moral person I know personally (with a few exceptions among my very closest friends), I'm a fairly happy guy, I'm ruthlessly logical... in short I lead by example. When confronted I do point out all the tremendous amounts of flaws in religion and how it effects the world in which I live, but the key thing I point out is that I'm not religious/mystical and because of that I can trace everything good in my life and the mysticism I see around me is the end to which I can trace everything evil... And I never miss an opportunity to say that to anyone.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Ignore ignorance.

Rex Wilkinson's picture

I would love to think that just ignoring it will make it go away but that only leaves them free to expand and grow more ignorance.My main aim is to get government to respond to the idea that religion has reached it's use by date and it's time to throw it away.Thank you for acknowledging how much you aggree with we sometimes forget to see the common ground because we are focused on a single issue.Most of what I'v said in here has been sent to the Prime minister,and the biggest was titled,NO GOD!NOW WHAT?,which explains were we go from here,what we do with the understanding that religion is a waste of time.On Radio LIve talking with Lindsay and Tibo I expressed my frustration at NZ's funding religion and asked Tibo ,how can we call ourselves a secular society when the government is funding religion,Tibo aggrees with me that you can't,so lets start by addressing what we need to change to call ourselves a secular society,government has to stop funding religion!

But

Landon Erp's picture

"The word atheist does not mean everything but it is the beggining of understanding everything.We invented religion,we can get rid of it."

But, where do you go from there. I know, if you do you haven't made it clear.

If you haven't caught on to the specifics of my comments I agree
with approximately 99% of everything you've said. And I think a lot of that 1% comes from the fact that while you were just expressing a desire to end preferential govenrment treatment of religion came out like you wanted to establish thought crime laws. (I'm sorry but that's what saying "Outlaw Religion" sounds like).

My only complaint is you're overly focused on something that ideally should be a side issue and a minor one at that. For someone who wants to move on from religion you're sure giving a lot of your time thought and effort to it.

You make speeches about removing religious terms from dialogue... I simply want to take them back from the religious (IE: Reverence, Morality, Worship, etc...). Your crusade against religion comes off like supporting an Anti-Fascist party. A party that defined itself as totally and completely against the evils of Facism, but was very unclear about what it was actually for.

Issues like this crop up from your overall approach. You rightly pointed out that religion doesn't have monopoly on morality (hell it barely even has a good grasp of what it should be) and that you can have a proper morality as an atheist (actually approaching morality from an atheistic perspective is the only path to true morality).

But the key thing is someone else had to bring up that popular fallacy first before you approached that KEY issue. It is a fallacy and it's probably the most damaging fallacy to atheism and you never approached it until confronted.

But also a key problem in your approach to the issue is you discussed the "do unto others..." approach to morality. That's good when a person is in a position to deal with others, but what about the other 70-80 percent of the time and major issues. Morality is there to guide a person through their whole life, not just when they happen to deal with others. And by sinking to the arrested level of morality of the religious (granted with a better grounding) you do a disservice to atheism and more importantly SECULAR PHILOSOPHY.

The end that you need to be fighting for is not the void of simple atheism but the blindingly powerful light of SECULAR PHILOSOPHY. LIFE and happiness centered ethics. Freedom centered politics. Inspiring Aesthetics. Rational epistemology.

The only way mysticism (not just religion) can truly be beaten is if it is moved on from and forgotten. Forgotten like all other foolish irrationalities of the past.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

My atheism

Rex Wilkinson's picture

I get you loud and clear and have done right from the start.I don't adhere to the systems definition of what it is to be an atheist,I make that determination.I see the logic and know that the devil is the same fantasy as god,god is who heaven is all about,I realy would like to think your brain is not so small as to not see that if there is no god there is no life after death.Monkey invented god to explain the natural forces,man created religion to control the masses.Heaven is the bait and we fall hook line and sinker in our millions.The word atheist does not mean everything but it is the beggining of understanding everything.We invented religion,we can get rid of it.

Landon

Rex Wilkinson's picture

So do I need to read all other posts before I read your comment so I can know what your reffering to?you could have commented on the piece itself.

WTF

Landon Erp's picture

It was in reference to a post Victor wrote saying "Is this guy even close to catching the drift."

I don't live in a fantasy world I merely write one.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Yes to your no

Rex Wilkinson's picture

Landon can I assume you aggree and your no is no to fantasy and yes to reality.?

no

Landon Erp's picture

Not in the slightest.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Rex!

Victor Pross's picture

I can see that you didn’t take comparative religions or philosophy at university. First of all, to be an atheist means only one thing: to reject the supernatural conception of God or gods. All other forms of irrationality are not incompatible with atheism—-beliefs such as reincarnation, communism, existentialism, et al.

Secondly, the opposite of atheism is not agnosticism—-it is THEISM. Theism, again and again I say---is a belief in a supernatural conception of God or gods. The prefix “A” before A-theism means “without”—and what it is without is a belief in the supernatural. To be an atheist means you are not a THEIST, Rex. And that's all it means (!!!)

But there are other forms of non-supernatural irrationality, Rex. Religion does not have a monopoly on irrationality and stupidity. Atheism only informs people as to what you are NOT---it doesn’t tell people what you are. To declare yourself as an atheist does not tell people what you stand for.

THIS is what I, and other people, have been telling you again and again. Is any of this sinking in?

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