Depression

Joe Idoni's picture
Submitted by Joe Idoni on Thu, 2005-12-08 21:54

I had a discussion today with a friend of mine about depression after a commercial for a clinical study. I advanced the theory that I think that the majority of depression results from being unable to resolve contradictions in ones life. He asked whether I believed that people could have chemical imbalances that caused depression. To me this is the false mind-body dichotomy. When one says that they have a chemical imbalance, it sounds to me as though they are saying that in order to correct it, they are relying on drugs to fix a problem that could easily be fixed through therapy.

So I suppose my question might be, if it's not too personal, does anyone here suffer from depression? Or maybe did anyone suffer before and found that furtherance of rational thought eliminated that?

Idoni


( categories: )

A similar fact

Landon Erp's picture

People who live near bodies of water are more likely to drown than people living in landlocked areas.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Anyone for some help????

KevinOwen's picture

New York Times
Legal Drugs Kill Far More Than Illegal, Florida Says
By DAMIEN CAVE
June 14, 2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06...

MIAMI — From “Scarface” to “Miami Vice,” Florida’s drug problem has been portrayed as the story of a single narcotic: cocaine. But for Floridians, prescription drugs are increasingly a far more lethal habit.

An analysis of autopsies in 2007 released this week by the Florida Medical Examiners Commission found that the rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs was three times the rate of deaths caused by all illicit drugs combined.

Law enforcement officials said that the shift toward prescription-drug abuse, which began here about eight years ago, showed no sign of letting up and that the state must do more to control it.

“You have health care providers involved, you have doctor shoppers, and then there are crimes like robbing drug shipments,” said Jeff Beasley, a drug intelligence inspector for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which co-sponsored the study. “There is a multitude of ways to get these drugs, and that’s what makes things complicated.”

The report’s findings track with similar studies by the federal Drug Enforcement Administration, which has found that roughly seven million Americans are abusing prescription drugs. If accurate, that would be an increase of 80 percent in six years and more than the total abusing cocaine, heroin, hallucinogens, Ecstasy and inhalants.

The Florida report analyzed 168,900 deaths statewide. Cocaine, heroin and all methamphetamines caused 989 deaths, it found, while legal opioids — strong painkillers in brand-name drugs like Vicodin and OxyContin — caused 2,328.

Drugs with benzodiazepine, mainly depressants like Valium and Xanax, led to 743 deaths. Alcohol was the most commonly occurring drug, appearing in the bodies of 4,179 of the dead and judged the cause of death of 466 — fewer than cocaine (843) but more than methamphetamine (25) and marijuana (Innocent.

The study also found that while the number of people who died with heroin in their bodies increased 14 percent in 2007, to 110, deaths related to the opioid oxycodone increased 36 percent, to 1,253.

Florida scrutinizes drug-related deaths more closely than do other states, and so there is little basis for comparison with them.

It has also witnessed several highly publicized cases in recent years that have highlighted the problem. Only last year, an accidental prescription drug overdose killed Anna Nicole Smith in Broward County.

Still, the state has lagged in enforcement. Thirty-eight other states have approved prescription drug monitoring programs that track sales. Florida lawmakers have repeatedly considered similar legislation, but privacy concerns have kept it from passing.

As a result, federal, state and local law enforcement officials say, Florida has become a source of prescription drugs that are illegally sold across the country.

“The monitoring plan is our priority effort, but that is not enough,” William H. Janes, the Florida director of drug control, said in a statement accompanying the study. He said Florida was also looking at ways to curb illegal Internet sales and to encourage doctors and pharmacists to identify potential abusers.

Some local police departments have taken a more novel approach.

In Broward County on May 31, deputies completed a “drug takeback” in which $5 Wal-Mart, CVS or Walgreens gift cards were distributed to 150 people who cleaned out their medicine cabinets and turned in unused drugs in an effort to keep them out of young people’s hands.

“The abuse has reached epidemic proportions,” said Lisa McElhaney, a sergeant in the pharmaceutical drug diversion unit of the Broward County Sheriff’s Office. “It’s just explosive.”

Bipolar Disorder: Epidemic Without a Disease.

KevinOwen's picture

Bipolar Disorder: Epidemic Without a Disease.

*Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD, Neurologist, Child Neurologist

June 4, 2008

In the Newsweek cover story of May 26, 2008, Growing Up Bipolar, Mary Carmichael describes yet another magical psychiatric epidemic. In any report of an epidemic there should be a description of the disease of which the epidemic is comprised and mention of the test by which the disease is diagnosed. But nowhere is there mention of a physical abnormality-gross (visible to the naked eye), microscopic or chemical, to make it a disease. Where is the proof that Max Blake, now ten, is other than physically, medically normal?

Symptoms abound. Max can't sleep. Max is sad. Max wants to kill himself. All serious symptoms to be sure, but entirely subjective--not objective "signs," abnormalities, diseases. Undaunted, Carmichael calls "bipolar" an "elusive disease" with a grave prognosis: a "horror story," in which "terrible things happen." But still no disease.

Next, we are told: "some doctors do not believe (bipolar) exists in children." But diagnosis is not a matter of belief. If no abnormality is demonstrated the diagnosis is "no evidence of disease"-NED, or "no organic disease"-NOD.

Absent abnormalities, Carmichael, marshals more symptoms: "These babies are born screaming."

Next, seeking to overwhelm with epidemiology, Carmichael writes: "800,000 children in the United States have been diagnosed." "The disease is hard to pin down." Nor does repeating the word "disease" make it so.

Parents are asked to chose from among the "many drugs" available even though "it's unclear how they work." How could it be otherwise without a disease to treat. No infection, cancer, or diabetes-all diagnosable, all treatable. In psychiatry, drugs change emotions and behaviors by damaging the normal brain, causing intoxication, poisoning, abnormality-disease.

"The disease is hard to pin down." "Its unclear how they (the drugs) work." This is not medical science, it is the "medical-speak" of "biological," psychiatry that is deceptive, fraudulent, and intent on peddling drugs. When, the patient is known to be normal but is called "diseased" and is "medicated," is that not poisoning? Is it not assault and battery? If the same patient dies, what is that called?

While false diagnostic labels alone may not make persons psychiatric patients-in-perpetuity, drugs which cause chemical dependency and conspicuous injury, such as Parkinson's syndrome or tardive dyskinesia in a seven year-old, surely do. Max's parents were told (1) "treat (your) child and risk a bad outcome, or (2) "don't treat and risk a worse one." In either case, this message is surely to the liking of the pharmaceutical industry which bankrolls it all.

Max and his parents have come to believe the "bipolar" fiction and to play out their roles in it. The main authors--perpetrators of this and all of psychiatry's fictitious "diseases" are the DSM Committee of the American Psychiatric Association and "researchers" at the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH).

For Max's mother: "There was one good thing about this strange diagnosis, she thought: at least it meant she wasn't a bad mother." Max and his parents all had roles to play. Max's role is to be "bipolar," a psychiatric patient-in-perpetuity. Everything else would take care of itself and psychiatry and Big Pharma would reap billions a year. And who knows, perhaps the 800,000 "bipolar" Max's Carmichael says we have this year will become 1.5 to 2 million next year, which many think it already is.

Harvard psychiatrists Joseph Biederman and Janet Wozniac were said to have "described" pediatric bipolar disorder in 1995. I have no doubt that they "described" it but, as is the case with all of psychiatry's "chemical imbalances" they have never proved that a single one is an actual disease, as throughout the rest of medicine.

At 2 ½ years of age, Rebecca Riley of Hull, Massachusetts was "diagnosed" ADHD and bipolar disorder, by child psychiatrist, Dr. Kayoko Kifuji, and was put Clonidine, Depakote and Seroquel, the last of which is a potent, poisonous, antipsychotic. None had been approved by the FDA for children so young. Rebecca became like a "floppy doll" and died December 13, 2006, at 4 years of age, not from a psychiatric disease, because there is no such thing, but from the very real, very toxic psychiatric drugs prescribed for her. Incredibly, her parents sit in jail, charged with her murder. Who made it appear that Rebecca had two "diseases"? Who convinced the parents she did and that the medications prescribed were "treatments" for them? Countless hundreds if not thousands of children thus diagnosed and drugged are dying, not from psychiatric diseases, but from the one or several drugs prescribed for them as "treatment." Between 1990 and 2000, 186 deaths from methylphenidate-Ritalin were reported to the FDA-MedWatch program, a voluntary reporting program the FDA itself, says detects no more than 1-10 percent of the actual number.

Who is responsible for the murder of Rebecca Riley? Who is responsible for the thousands or tens of thousands of deaths from prescribed psychiatric drugs for psychiatric "diseases" that do not exist?

*Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD, Neurologist, Child Neurologist, Fellow, American Academy of Neurology; Director of the March of Dimes-Birth Defects Clinic of Western Michigan, 1967-1975. He has discovered and described real diseases including CHANDS: The Curly Hair-Ankyloblepharon-Nail Dysplasia Syndrome. The Clinical Delineation of Birth Defects, Volume XII, 100, 1972 and is author of the book: THE ADHD FRAUD -- How Psychiatry Makes "Patients" of Normal Children http://www.Trafford.com

Really Bad Taste

Hayden Wood's picture

I was depressed last night so I called Lifeline.

I got a call center in Pakistan .

I told them I was suicidal.

They got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck

I think

Markus's picture

Fortunately, I was being seen for med management by a psychiatric senior resident whose supervisor was closely attuned to the mind-body continuum. In response to the stress of once again entering the Twilight Zone of not knowing what was happening to my mind/brain, we developed a therapeutic relationship that was warm, trusting, and mutually respectful. My persistent need to validate my experiences and understanding with research was met with patience, understanding, and encouragement to develop trust in my own judgement, and to resume writing - both for my own benefit, and possibly that of others.
premarin cream

"Re: do I work in the healing feild

KevinOwen's picture

"Re: do I work in the healing field? If you mean, can I help people psychologically? For money, formally, according to a school of therapy, no. With family and friends and online acquaintances, yes. But I don't prescribe drugs. Why do you ask? "

Hi William, you seem to be doing a good job at rubbishing what I do [Psychosomatic Healing]. I take it what you do is far superior. You have stated that you can't help anyone psychologically, [including yourself I take it] and you don't charge for the healing you do. [maybe no-one will pay for it]. You also don't prescribe any drugs. Maybe you could let us in on this secret healing method? Your not one of these healers that shines lights on damaged body parts, hopeing something will improve are you? If your not up to letting us know [ashamed ] don't worry I'll understand. Cheers

CCHR video highlights from 2007 [4mins]

KevinOwen's picture

Psychiatry Drugging and Harming Children
http://www.cchr.org/2007_highl...

SURVEY

KevinOwen's picture

Could you help with this survey. Cut and paste the survey and your answers and send it to cchr@xtra.co.nz. Thanks for your help. Cheers

SURVEY
We are conducting a survey for the title of a new documentary about a source of school and community violence. Please read the titles and then answer the following questions. Thanks

A. PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS: PRESCRIPTION FOR VIOLENCE

B. PSYCHIATRY’S FINAL CURE

C. PSYCHIATRY CREATES KID KILLERS

D. PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS & VIOLENCE—THE FATAL CONNECTION

E. PSYCHIATRY: CREATING SENSELESS VIOLENCE

F. PSYCHIATRY: PROFITING FROM DRUGS AND VIOLENCE

1.Which of the above titles interests you the most?
A___ B___ C___ D___ E___F___

2. Why does it interest you?

3. Which title do you like the most?
A___ B___ C___ D___ E___ F___

4. Which title do you like the least?
A___ B___ C___ D___ E___ F___

A bit of rationality

Leonid's picture

Leonid
"What would you reccommend. Some prozac and a bit of shock treatment??"
Not really.Just a bit of rationality and common sense.

Some prozac and a bit of shock treatment??

KevinOwen's picture

"Don't you think you are a bit paranoid and need some treatment yourself?"

What would you reccommend. Some prozac and a bit of shock treatment??

This is huge conspiracy,Kevin

Leonid's picture

Leonid

"Prompted by psychiatrists with their own vested interests in pharmaceutical sales, the media has spun the blame for the rise in the suicide rate for children on the black box warning labels placed on antidepressants."

This is huge conspiracy-media,psychiatrists,pharmaceutical industry.Maybe you should also include extraterrestrials so it would sound like X-files? Don't you think you are a bit paranoid and need some treatment yourself?

TV Expose On Drugs Turning Kids Into Killers

KevinOwen's picture

TV Expose On Drugs Turning Kids Into Killers Fox News Sunday 6pm PST 9pm EST
http://www.buzzine.com/content...

We know what happened after Britney popped her pills and went zombie at the MTV awards and how Paris, under the care and "medication" of her psychiatrist, went bloody psycho in jail (until she too was given a dose huge enough to achieve zombification). Now, hard-hitting investigative journalist Douglas Kennedy (yes, son of RFK) will present an explosive exposé showing the link between these same, widely prescribed drugs and the rash of kids going postal in our schools and malls.

Kennedy was the first national reporter to link anti-depressant medications to adolescent suicide and violence, prompting government hearings that eventually resulted in the black box warnings from the Food and Drug Administration. Cited for his social journalism advocacy work, Kennedy says, "You can be objective and still take on an issue that is important to society and to you personally."

This report is not to be missed. Hopefully Paris and Britney will be watching.

Douglas Kennedy on Fox News "Hannity's America"
Sunday, Dec 16 6pm PST 9pm EST

Prozac Nation poster boy Kip Kinkel after shooting his parents and classmates

"Re: do I work in the healing field?

KevinOwen's picture

"Re: do I work in the healing field? If you mean, can I help people psychologically? For money, formally, according to a school of therapy, no. With family and friends and online acquaintances, yes. But I don't prescribe drugs. Why do you ask? "

Just interested. We can train you, so you can help them psychologically and for money.

Unlike many other practioners, I have to give anything I earn back to the customer within 3 months if they are not happy with the service.

Auditors Code
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n...
{24 I promise to see that any donation received for processing is refunded, following the policies of the Claims Verification Board, if the preclear is dissatisfied and demands it within three months after the processing, the only condition being that he may not again be processed or trained.]

"Remember, there is no chemical or medical treatment available or given for those who show the diagnostic profile of that which is called 'autism spectrum disorder."

That does seem to indicate they don't know what they are dealing with. The diagnostic profile is just a label for the sypmtoms and all based on the knowledge of the physical healer [having no knowledge of psychosomatic healing]. To understand the mechanics behind the condition, and many others, you will have to learn about psychsomatic healing.

There are hundreds of physical and mental symptoms generated by the mind [not the brain] and labelled, that the medical professional treats. They [medical model] have virtually no cures for any of these and are experts at labeling and treating symptoms, with physical treatments, even though the cause maybe psychosomatic. That should suggest to you that many of the answers to these conditions lie way outside of their philosophy. Thats why their endless research on the physical cell doesn't advance more than, we may have a cure for ??? in the next 5 yrs.

Many things the medical model do are workable but their philosophy stops at the physical healing level and the labels and explanations they give for conditions stops there as well. If they could look at psychosomatic healing, it would open up the field and get rid allot of symptom treating

Why are you so interested in the conditions of ADHD and Autism?

I hope the above helps. cheers

"Supplementary: do you class

William Scott Scherk's picture

"Supplementary: do you class autism spectrum disorders under the same rubric of 'invented illness'?"

Kevin: Autism
A mental state marked by fantasy. Disregard of external reality

The statement below should answer your question.

The statement doesn't address autism spectrum disorders as a diagnostic entity; would you treat an 'autistic' child brought to you in the same situation as the 'ADHD'-diagnosed child?

Remember, there is no chemical or medical treatment available or given for those who show the diagnostic profile of that which is called 'autism spectrum disorder.' In earlier days most were either classed as mentally retarded, or if high-functioning, 'weird.'

Are you familiar with Temple Grandin? Have you any experience with what you might call so-called Autism?

Re: do I work in the healing field? If you mean, can I help people psychologically? For money, formally, according to a school of therapy, no. With family and friends and online acquaintances, yes. But I don't prescribe drugs. Why do you ask?

WSS

Good questions Do you work in the healing field?

KevinOwen's picture

"Would you be able to help that kid and her parent, do you think?"

You bet. Sometimes you only have to help the parent so that they can cope better and not have the kid run circles around them.

"Supplementary: do you class autism spectrum disorders under the same rubric of 'invented illness'?"

Autism
A mental state marked by fantasy. Disregard of external reality

The statement below should answer your question. The best way to help someone in that condition would be to get trained yourself as it would be a gentle and slow process over a long period to help him/her out of the fantasy world and back into the real world [if the condition was psychosomatic]

... modern psychiatry has yet to
convincingly prove the
genetic/biological cause of
any single mental illness...
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n...

PSYCHIATRIC DIAGNOSIS
MANUFACTURING MADNESS
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n...

They are literally psychiatry's "bible"
of invented mental illnesses. Of course, psychiatry
will protest that they do not invent the behaviors
defined. And this is true the behaviors are often
observable. However psychiatry's unscientific and
arbitrary bundling together of behaviors and
emotions under the fraudulent tag of "mental
illness" is pure fabrication - calculated to further
the myth of mental illness and precipitate a Mental
Health State.

For more information contact:
Citizen's Commission on Human Rights®
Ph/Fax 09-3733897
PO Box 5257 Auckland

I

Elijah Lineberry's picture

think there is enormous ignorance about Autism, its effects and its 'degrees'.

What makes you think Autism is invented?!?!

...apart from the impossibility of somehow 'faking it', where did that idea come from?!?! Shocked

(you may as well say a child is faking lefthandedness)

"I create nothing. I own"

'Symptom' profile of ADHD

William Scott Scherk's picture

Kevin, let's say that ADHD is not a real condition. I mean, not a real psychiatric condition of ill-health. But lets also say that someone, a parent, brings to you a child who has had a diagnosis of ADHD.

The parent says, "Kevin, I don't believe that ADHD is a real illness. I won't give her drugs. I won't. Can you help us?'

Would you be able to help that kid and her parent, do you think?

WSS

Supplementary: do you class autism spectrum disorders under the same rubric of 'invented illness'?

Listen to this before a psychiatrist puts your kid on ADHD Drugs

KevinOwen's picture

CCHR Radio Show

Organic Chemist Shane Ellison reveals how drugs are manufactured to treat "symptoms" of invented illnesses, such as ADHD.
http://www.cchr.org/media/radi...

Benefits of Antidepressants in Children and teenagers

Leonid's picture

Leonid
JAMA 2007;297:1683-1696.
Benefits of Antidepressants in
Children and Teenagers Outweigh Risks

The benefits of antidepressants for children
and teenagers with depression or anxiety
disorders may outweigh their risks, according
to a large meta-analysis.
What’s more, the small increased suicidal risks that
have been reported were not statistically significant,
found the results of the analysis, which were reported in
the April 18 issue of the Journal of the American Medical
Association The analysis of paediatric antidepressant
treatment of major depressive disorder, obsessive-compulsive
disorder and other anxiety disorders showed ef-
ficacy for all three conditions, wrote Drs Jeffrey Bridge,
of Ohio State University in Columbus, and David Brent,
of the University of Pittsburgh, and colleagues. There
was an overall small (less than 1%) increased risk of
suicidal ideation or attempt, they added. There were no
completed suicides in these trials.
Previous research, they said, had linked the use of
antidepressants among children and adolescents with
an increased risk of suicidal behaviour and thoughts,
resulting in an FDA boxed label warning on paediatric
antidepressant medications. To address this concern,
the researchers undertook a meta-analysis of published
and unpublished randomised, placebo-controlled, parallel-
group trials of second-generation antidepressants
(selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors), nefazodone,
venlafaxine and mirtazapine in participants younger
than 19 with major depression or anxiety disorders.
Twenty-seven trials were selected, including paediatric
major depressive disorder (n=15), obsessivecompulsive
disorder (n=6) and other anxiety disorders
(n=6), and risk differences for response and for suicidal
ideation/suicide attempt were estimated by random-effects
methods. All but four of the studies used a flexible
dosing schedule and the majority were multisite.
Pooled risk differences in rates of primary study defined
measures of responder status were strongest
for non-obsessive-compulsive anxiety disorders
(non-OCD), intermediate for obsessive-compulsive
anxiety disorders (OCD) and more modest for major
depressive disorders (MDD). Findings were:
• For major depressive disorders (11.0% [95% con-
fidence interval, 7.1% to 14.9%]),
• OCD (19.8% [13.0% to 26.6%]),
• Non-OCD anxiety disorders (37.1% [22.5% to
51.7%]).
• These results corresponded to a number needed
to treat of 10 (7 to 15), six (4 to Cool, and three (2 to
5), respectively.
Although there was an increased risk difference of
suicidal ideation/suicide attempt across all trials, the
pooled risk differences within each indication were
all less than 1% and were not statistically significant,
(0.7%; 95% CI, 0.1% to 1.3%) (number needed to
harm, 143 [CI, 77 to 1000]). Suicide indications for
drug versus placebo were:
• Major depressive disorders, 0.9% (95% CI, -0.1%
to 1.9%),
• OCD, 0.5% (-1.2% to 2.2%),
• Non-OCD anxiety disorders, 0.7% (-0.4% to
1.8%).
• There were no completed suicides.
Age-stratified analyses showed that for children
younger than 12 with major depression, only fluoxetine
showed a benefit over placebo. However, the reason for
this finding is unclear, but could be due to study quality,
location or a property of the medication itself, such as its
long half-life, the researchers said. The researchers also
reported that they found some evidence that age, duration
of the disorder and study conditions moderated the
outcome for treatment of both depression and anxiety.
In reviewing the study’s limitations, the researchers
cited the mixed quality of data in meta-analyses,
possible baseline differences in participants, dosing
or adherence to treatment, and the fact that no trial
was designed to study suicide ideation or attempts as
a study outcome. There are several recommendations
for future studies that emerge from this meta-analysis.

But why,then, you ask to provide you with scientific information

KevinOwen's picture

CCHR Downloadable Publications
Adolescent Suicide Rate, Not Due To Black Box Warnings
http://www.cchr.org/index/5166...

Prompted by psychiatrists with their own vested interests in pharmaceutical sales, the media has spun the blame for the rise in the suicide rate for children on the black box warning labels placed on antidepressants.

But why,then, you ask to provide you with scientific information

KevinOwen's picture

Just because you offer some information [scientific, probably doctored] doesn't automatically mean the reader has to believe it.

"Stated another way, there is
no proof that any of psychiatrists
374 mental disorders exist at all; they exist
because psychiatry says they exist"
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n...

Wow

Landon Erp's picture

That example is really well documented. Kind of like that monty python bit, "Of our 50 test subjects, 15 suffered dismemberments, ten dead, 25 missing presumed cured"

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Scientology is based on blind faith.

Leonid's picture

Leonid
Kevin:"Some people will believe anything?? "
I'm not surprised that you casualy discard serious scientific study and believe to anecdotal evidences.This is the nature of wich doctory.But why,then, you ask to provide you with scientific information? You don't need it.Scientology is based on blind faith.

antidepressants and suicide

KevinOwen's picture

"The study includes the Netherlands,which had 22%decrease in antidepressant use among children between 2003 and 2005.The suicide rate there increased by 49%"

Some people will believe anything?? It reminds me of an article I read about some doctors down south who went on strike for a short period [no anti depressants being prescribed] and in that time the suicide rate decreased, probably not as much as 49% though. Keep the good work up. Someone has to dish out those pills even if you don't know how they work or what your treating.

Psychiatrist David Kaiser is unequivocal
about the lie of neurobiological disorder.
In 1996, he stated:
... modern psychiatry has yet to
convincingly prove the
genetic/biological cause of
any single mental illness...

antidepressants and suicide

Leonid's picture

Leonid
Kevin "If you want to show some statistics on these people please forward them."

This is the short summary of the article " Youth Suicides Increased as Antidepressant Use Fell: Study" (Medical Chronicle, October 2007 www.wilbury.co.za)

"Warning from US regulators four years ago that antidepressants were increasing the risk of suicidal behavior among young people led to a precipitous drop in the use of the drugs.Now a new study has found that the drop coincides with an unprecedented increase in the number of suicides among children. From 2003 to 2004 the suicide rate among American younger than 19 rose by 14%. The data suggest that for every 20% decline in antideppresant use among patients of all age 3040 suicides per year would occur.The study includes the Netherlands,which had 22%decrease in antidepressant use among children between 2003 and 2005.The suicide rate there increased by 49% (!!!) in this period"
And I have only one question to ask:how many deaths FDA and wich doctors prepare to take on their conscience in order to promote their paranoid conspiracy theories and their mediaeval practice?

Wheres our local Psychiatrist

KevinOwen's picture

"So let us look at psychs again—what they call “treatment” is a suppression (by shocks, drugs, etc.) of the ability to think. They are not honest enough, these psychs, being just dramatizing psychotics themselves for the most part, to publish the fact that all their “treatments” (mayhem, really, when it is not murder) make people more stupid.

These actions of shock and crazy evaluative counseling, etc., lower IQ like an express elevator going down to the basement. They do not tell legislators this or put it in their books. This is why they say “no one can change IQ.” They are hiding the fact that they ruin it."

psychologist, a total idiot.

KevinOwen's picture

Hi micheal

Welcome aboard.

I have to agree. They are good con men though but not as good as the psychiatrist [see ELECTRIC SHOCK TREATMENT flyer below]
(Harvard or Yale) I suppose they have to go somewhere to learn the tricks of the trade??

"I think the same idea can be said for psychotherapy."

It depends on what form of psychotherapy you use. Psychiatric psychotherapy is obsolete

Psychotherapy, not knowing about pain storage and its effects discovered long ago that one could rid a patient of one illness only to have another pop up -and psychotherapy became a defeatist school because it could do nothing permanent for the abberrated or the ill even when it could do a little something to relieve it. Hence, all efforts to make men vital and well became suspect because the reason they were inefficient and ill had not been discovered and proven.

ELECTRIC SHOCK TREATMENT
PAIN AND FRAUD IN THE
NAME OF THERAPY

"Electric shock should not be available as a choice just as thalidomide is not available to pregnant woman. After fifty years of practicing this hoax, psychiatrists are not likely to suddenly agree that it is harmful. As soon as they do, they know there would be a rush of criminal and civil suits from which they would never recover. Governments should outlaw it."

Dr. Michael Chavin

For more information contact:
Citizens Commission on
Human Rights®
Ph/Fax 09 373 3897
PO Box 5257 Auckland

10 out of 10 surgical deaths happen in a hospitial

KevinOwen's picture

Many of those deaths could be prevented if the medical model knew something about psychosomatic healing but as there technology only deals with the bodily flesh and not Soul[conscoiusness] and Mind [Memory] they will continue to have similar statistics.

Reported suicides – more

Newberry's picture

Reported suicides – more than 80 percent got psychiatric drugs, well over 50 percent got antidepressants.
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=24608&cat=10

Im sure many cancer patients die from their treatments but I haven't seen any statistics that show many of them committing suicide. I tend to agree with what the furneral directors said. If you want to show some statistics on these people please forward them.

Hi Kevin,

I think you make a good point.

I had a chiropractor who did kinetic testing, he knew his stuff–he was also a scientologist. The goal was to restore overall health, and when you are healthy you don’t have health problems. Smiling I think the same idea can be said for psychotherapy.

I recall reading a book by the Dalai Lama, actually written by psychologist, a total idiot. The quotes from the Dalai Lama were awesome but everything the writer said, I wanted to strangle him. For example, after all his education (Harvard or Yale) and years of practice, it never occurred to him that happiness was the standard for mental health. He thought the goal was for people not to feel bad. Nice, a total luke-warm existence.

Michael

http://www.MichaelNewberry.com

10 out of 10 surgical deaths happen in a hospitial

Isn't this the standard statistical correlation / causation error?

Wm

9 out of 10 suicides were after psychiatric help.

KevinOwen's picture

Reported suicides – more than 80 percent got psychiatric drugs, well over 50 percent got antidepressants.
http://www.transworldnews.com/...

Im sure many cancer patients die from their treatments but I haven't seen any statistics that show many of them committing suicide. I tend to agree with what the furneral directors said. If you want to show some statistics on these people please forward them. Cheers

kevin,this is very doubtful statistics.

Leonid's picture

Leonid
"Fair enough. I contacted the furneral homes in my area to find out why we had so many suicides. They told me that 9 out of 10 were after psychiatric help. Could that be just the natural course of their illnesses"

This is intriguing piece of information. Since when funeral houses have access to the confidential medical records and since when they freely distribute these records to anybody who just happened to ask? I'd doubt your statistics.
Besides your methodology is deadly(literally) wrong.If you check all cancer-related deaths you'll find that 90% received chemo-radiotherapy. If you check all heart failure related deaths you'll find that all patients recieved diuretics.Would you claim that cancer and heart failure therapies are deadly and fight to stop them? If you were seeking true knowledge and not just support for your agenda you'd compare suicide rates among the patients on treatment with suicide rates of those who has been denied treatment as result of your conspiracy theory.You may be very suprised .

"However some patients died

KevinOwen's picture

"However some patients died due to natural course of their illnesses"

Fair enough. I contacted the furneral homes in my area to find out why we had so many suicides. They told me that 9 out of 10 were after psychiatric help. Could that be just the natural course of their illnesses?

Hows the research going in your field?

Millions Lost In Fraudulent Psychiatric Research

    http://www.justicefreedom.org/...

      * A study of the brain circuits which control mounting and receptive sexual behavior of the unisex whiptail lizard. In nine years, this project cost $1.4 million.

      * A five-year study of red-winged blackbirds to determine how humans make choices of mates, dwelling, reproductive areas, escape routes and foraging areas. Cost: more than $539,000.

      * A five-year study of the hormonal mechanisms in the brains of rats which make them want to eat salt. Cost: $5 million.

      * A study of tree frogs’ communications to their mates to determine the development and maintenance of speech communication in humans. Cost: over $91,000.

      * A 12-year study in which the jaw muscles of pigeons and rats were monitored electronically to determine which brain mechanisms could be linked to eating disorders in humans. Cost: over $545,000.

      And many, many more.

Kevin,I don't kill and I'm not a cheat

Leonid's picture

Leonid

"How many paitents have you killed with electric shock treatment and drugs?"

No one. However some patients died due to natural course of their illnesses and some simply of old age.I never claimed that I can save everybody. That would be the claim for omnipotency that only suits the practitioners of religion,dianetics,scientology,wich doctors of spiritual healing and all other sandry swindlers.

Hahaha!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Fabulous. Especially Tom & John in the closet. Hahahaha!

Scientology - what bullshit. One born every minute I guess.

World History According to Ron Hubbard

KevinOwen's picture

Good stuff. Do you know if they ever sued the reincarnated Hubbard? Cheers.

World History According to Ron Hubbard

Bill_S's picture

Kevin, perhaps you will be amused by this episode of "South Park":
link

Much more than 1300.

KevinOwen's picture

"Do you know how many deaths are related to aspirin?"

I was trying to work it out on my calculator but blew a fuse???

I think the 1300 deaths may have been in the first four years of its release.

How many paitents have you killed with electric shock treatment and drugs?

We are not against the individual psychiatrist but we are against the dangerous treatments he/she delivers.

Behind The World Wide Campaign
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n... [full article]
Although the forty-year assault against Scientology® assumed large proportions, the source must be remembered-that small but influential circle of psychiatrists and their government stooges. Nor did the means change over the years: false allegations selectively planted in the media, then seeded into even more federal files as background “fact.”

And what about aspirin?

Leonid's picture

Leonid

Do you know how many deaths are related to aspirin? Much more than 1300.

PSYCHIATRY
MULTI-BILLION
DOLLAR FRAUD

Don't you think that your conspiracy theory is also a bit paranoid? Try dianetics if you think it helps.

uh oh!

Matty Orchard's picture

Looks ike we're gona av ta settle this lil squabble with an anecdote off...Draw!

DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY IS UTTER HOGWASH

KevinOwen's picture

"if she wants to run around a graveyard and dress Goth to get a sense of adventure and fulfillment,"

Its a pity you don't know how to help her??? You could give Leonid a call for a dose of electricity

"Let me repeat that: DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY IS UTTER HOGWASH. It is a mystic religion. Period. End of story."

I agree, it is UTTER HOGWASH to someone who knows nothing about it.

My brother a parinoid schozophenic of 15 years recieved ect and psych drugs untill I helped him with Dianetics [The Modern Science of Mental Health] It helped him to tidy up his mind so he was in control of it [his mind] instead of it controlling him. I had to clean up the damage done by shock therapy and the years of dangerous psychiatric drugs. [drug withdrawl]. I just got him on the verge of commiting suicide. Thanks for your help psychiatry?????
No more drugs, electric shock therapy or visits to crazy psychiatrists.

PSYCHIATRY
MULTI-BILLION
DOLLAR FRAUD

Killer Drugs (Prozac)

Many new psychiatric drugs have been touted as "wonder drugs" only to turn out to be highly destructive.
One of these, Prozac, has been
found to create intense violent suicidal thoughts.
As of June 1992, just four and a half
years after its release, Prozac had
amassed more than 23,000 adverse
reaction reports under the U.S. Food
and Drug reaction reporting system
greater than any other drug in the
22 year history of the system.

These included more than 1.300
Prozac related deaths.

For more information contact:

Citizens Commission on Human Rights®
Ph/Fax 09 373 3897
P.O. Box 5257 Auckland

mystics are also people

Leonid's picture

Leonid

"I am not going to restrain her."

Not to restrain but ,maybe,to explain,to appeal to her reason,she is after all rational animal too.Suppose she happened to be your sister or good friend.Wouldn't you offer to her real help?

Of course not!

atlascott's picture

Severe schizophrenics are a real danger to themselves and others. Ergo, dianetics or Wicca is out. But if we are talking about some confused broad who is blue and will not try a rational answer, as much as I abhor mysticism, if she wants to run around a graveyard and dress Goth to get a sense of adventure and fulfillment, if she isnt hurting anyone and she enjoys it, and even though it doesn't really solve anything, I am not going to restrain her.

Scott DeSalvo

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!

Some people need real help.

Leonid's picture

Leonid

"if it eases pain and makes life worth living for someone, go ahead and believe what you want if it keeps you happy, doesn't hurt anyone else, and keeps you from suicide."

Suppose one is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. His believes hardly would keep him happy.He would need real help.The same thing applies to major depression.These people are suffering from severe mental pain. Think about patient with cancer pain. Would it be fair to offer him dianetics or spiritual healing instead analgesia and chemotherapy? I think it would be cruel fraud.

Dianetics is utter hogwash.

atlascott's picture

Let me repeat that: DIANETICS AND SCIENTOLOGY IS UTTER HOGWASH. It is a mystic religion. Period. End of story.

However, allow me to default to my position about just about everything in life: if it eases pain and makes life worth living for someone, go ahead and believe what you want if it keeps you happy, doesn't hurt anyone else, and keeps you from suicide.

Scott DeSalvo

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!

Psychiatry: Industry Of Death Exihibit

KevinOwen's picture

The Citizens Commission On Human Rights invites you to a special viewing of their exhibition on human rights and psychiatry

When Friday 12 October
Doors Open at 4pm
Guest Speakers and Official Opening 4.30pm

Where: Destructor Building
Victoria Park Market
cnr Union & Drake Streets
Auckland City

Refreshments will be served

As part of Mental Health Awareness Week (8-14 Oct 07) we have extended to you this invitation to our exhibition which documents psychiatry’s long history of human rights abuses right up until present day, because we believe this has impacted negatively on our society for far too long.

The exhibit contains several documentaries of rare footage showing how psychiatry has influenced several institutions including education, law, medicine, the arts, politics and religion. The documentary has been classified R18 as the content may disturb some people.

The Citizens Commission on Human Rights has been active in New Zealand since 1976 making known numerous cases of psychiatric abuse in this country. In more recent years this work has been recognised at a national level resulting in compensation for many victims, edging towards more accountability for those responsible.

We hope you can join us on this important occasion, but if not we ask that you send a representative in your stead.

Thanks, we look forward to seeing you there.

Kind regards

Steve

Steve Green
Executive Director
Citizens Commission on Human Rights
PO Box 5257
Wellesley St
Auckland
Ph/Fax: (09) 580 0060
0800 777 555
cchr@xtra.co.nz
www.cchr.org

"the purpose of the

KevinOwen's picture

"the purpose of the treatment is not a cure but alleviation of symptoms."
"Mortality rate of adult patients with solid tumors is near 100%-cancer is incurable disease."

Is there any decent help out there????????

If you treat psychosomatic conditions [those generated inside the body by the mind] with physical treatments, you don't have to be a scientist to work out the success rate.

As placebo affect is around 20 - 40 % success rate, the above figures or treatments would come in at a lower rate than that.

"Experts estimate that psychosomatic illnesses account for up to 70 percent of man’s ills, including being too fat or too thin, migraines, allergies and other afflictions not strictly caused by physical reasons."

Leonid"Got any statistics

Leonid's picture

Leonid

"Got any statistics for how many cancer patients died while on Chemotherapy or Radiation. Or how about how many patients died of heart failure while on treatment for that?"

Mortality rate of adult patients with solid tumors is near 100%-cancer is incurable disease. Mortality rate of the end stage heart failure is 100% with any treatment unless patient recieves heart transplant.Severe psychiatric conditions are very similar-they are incurable and the purpose of the treatment is not a cure but alleviation of symtoms.

No to wich doctory

Leonid's picture

Leonid

"I suggest you take some of your own treatment [shock Therapy] and let me know what it does for you."

If I will develope major depression I'll use ECT and antidepressive medications. In any case I'll not use scientology, "spiritual healing", dianetics or any form of wich doctory.

Kevin

Landon Erp's picture

"Reported suicides – more than 80 percent got psychiatric drugs, well over 50 percent got antidepressants."

Got any statistics for how many cancer patients died while on Chemotherapy or Radiation. Or how about how many patients died of heart failure while on treatment for that?

Anti-psychotics like all drugs have real effects, if they're given to the wrong people the results are disasterous (just like a healthy person taking Chemo-therapy), and ultimately some people are just too far gone for the medicine to help (like people who die of heart failure while on nitro therapy).

Food for thought.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Who needs doctor death when you have psychiatrists.

KevinOwen's picture

Reported suicides – more than 80 percent got psychiatric drugs, well over 50 percent got antidepressants.
http://www.transworldnews.com/...

Stockholm, Sweden 10/07/2007 02:07 p.m. GMT (TransWorldNews)

Health care providers in Sweden are per a new law required to report all suicides committed in health care and up to four weeks after last health care visit. The reports are sent to the National Board of Health and Welfare for investigation.

367 suicides were reported per this law for 2006.

Data gotten via FOIA requests show: More than 80 percent of persons committing suicide were “treated” with psychiatric drugs; in well over 50 percent of the cases the persons got antidepressants, in more than 60 neuroleptics or antidepressants.

This information has been concealed by senior (psychiatric) officials at the National Board of Health and Welfare. It was contrary to the best interests of Big Pharma and biological psychiatrists. It blew the myths of antidepressants and neuroleptics as suicide protecting drugs to pieces. It would also have hurt the career of many medical journalists to take up this subject; journalists who for years have made their living by writing marketing articles about new antidepressant drugs. So nothing has been written about this in major media in Sweden.

Senior officials at the National Board of Health and Welfare have relied on evaluations from well-known Swedish SSRI proponents, (like psychiatrists G. Isaksson, A.L. von Knorring) who for the last decade have touted the new antidepressants as “life saving”. A senior official said that “evidence based treatment of the underlying psychiatric disorder can reduce the risk for suicide”, referring to the “protective effect” that he believed antidepressant drugs had. The data about the large percentage of persons committing suicide, “treated” with psychiatric drugs, were brushed aside by the official, saying the data “cannot currently be seen as a representative source for a discussion about these questions” (!).

The agency has recently published its first analysis of cases from 2006, reported per the new law (Suicides 2006, reported per Lex Maria; in Swedish). Not a single word is written about the most compelling fact: Well over 80 percent of persons killing themselves were treated with psychiatric drugs.

Instead of using this result to save lives the result was hidden.

It was claimed: “Every investigated suicide where one can see flaws that can be taken care of, can contribute to the prevention of further suicides.” Yet no investigation at all was done in the suicide inducing effect of antidepressants and neuroleptics.

At regional level at the agency there are definitely officials wanting to do a good job and get at the real facts of the scene. They are however betrayed by top management. For example: The forms ordered to be used at regional level when investigating suicide cases completely omit factors about drug treatment.

A certain number of persons killing themselves can be expected to be suffering from drug induced akathisia – an extreme inner restlessness, a feeling of having to creep out of ones skin, a completely unbearable condition. It is created by the psychiatric drugs, not by any “underlying disease”. Akathisia is a condition that can make a person commit violent acts – against self or others. It is a condition officially recognized and taken up in the warning texts for the drugs. A number of persons have been affected by mania or hypomania – again created by the drugs; conditions also officially recognized; conditions that can lead to suicide.

Some of the valid questions in an objective investigation would be: Is the suicide an effect of an unbearable condition created by the drugs (like akathisia)? Has the drug dose been increased – with a catastrophic result – when the worsened condition in actual fact was caused by the drug (while being blamed on the “underlying disease”)? Has the patient been subject to an abrupt discontinuation (with severe withdrawal symptoms as the result)? Is the catastrophic result very likely caused by concomitant use of psychiatric drugs? Has the patient been informed about the serious harmful effects that these drugs can cause?

None of these questions are part of the form worked out by senior officials at the National Board of Health and Welfare.

These questions would – if asked and the answers used – save lives. But they would also threaten the profits of Big Pharma and the careers of their hired psychiatrists. Therefore they cannot be asked.

Janne Larsson
writer – investigating psychiatry
Sweden
janne.olov.larsson@telia.com

Electric Shock Treatment

KevinOwen's picture

"The only occasional side effect is short transient amnesia."

As you don't have to repair the damage done by the treatment or pay out the compensation it probably doesn't worry you to much. I have to clean up the mess after you which includes rehabilitating the persons memory, plus handling the trauma experienced after the shock treatment

Every treatment has some workability as placebo effect is 20-40% of that success. If memory is the cause of the demons someone is experiencing and you hit him/her with a shot of electricy, suppressing those memories, his symptoms may reduce temporaraly. This is sometimes taken as an improvement but is very limited. I suggest you take some of your own treatment [shock Therapy] and let me know what it does for you.

Psychiatrists admit No Science No Cures Online Video
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n... [link at bottom of page]

The Video takes a short time to download but its worth watching, even for a laugh. Cheers

don't call me mad

Ashley's picture

Hi, I always get confused when we revisit an old thread...for a moment I contemplated a response to the original post and then suddenly encountered myself responding to it. Several years ago. In any case -

I just read a "KevinOwen" post which included:

"When someone goes to a psychiatrist, psychologist and is diagnosed with a chemical imbalance there is no test to show what chemical is out of balance or should be rebalanced"

And it reminded me of something amusing that recently happened to me...which is that a was bitten severely by a cat (nasty creatures) who I was trying to help into a crate after he had been bitten by a fox...and long story short, they told me I should go receive the series of injections for the rabies virus at a local hospital. I queried whether the cat could simply be tested for rabies, and they told me they would have to cut off its head and test the brain tissue, which unfortunately cannot be done without first killing the cat (a friend's cat - I just couldn't do it). I asked if they could test me, and with some amusement on the part of the veterinarian was told that the same restrictions would apply. And that the only way to tell that I might have rabies would be the symptoms (encephalitis, and then soon, death - at which point they could confirm the diagnosis, since once the symptoms begin the condition is untreatable). So I suppose I am not won over by the lack of a "test" and am comfortable with symptom based diagnosis, for the most part. Particularly when the proposed treatment alleviates the symptoms. I don't have rabies as of now, so I optimistic that it all worked.

"The single journey through consciousness should be participated in as fully as possible by the individual no matter how dangerous or cruel or terror-filled that experience may be."

"subjectivism can be cured

KevinOwen's picture

"But once you start talking "reactive mind," "analytic mind," "repressed memories"

"subjectivism can be cured and bring with it many "healing" wonders"

Hi claudia. Thanks for your limited view on the subject.
If you knew Dianetics well, you would know that all it does is release a persons attention from the past, back into the present. I'm glad you've found something that works for you. I'll back anything that has some workability and has a success rate above placebo effect [20 - 40% success rate]

You say objectivism brings many healing wonders and I wouldn't disagree with you until I knew the subject well.
Does objectivism handle all Psychosomatic Illness with skill or is it based on pot luck.
Is there reference online that you could refer me to that suggests how it is done. Thanks

Over the last 10 years I have HANDLED as many as 200 different conditions [psychosomatic Illnesses] with Dianetics: The Modern Science Of Mental Health.

As you suggest, what you use has more workability than what I use, it would be worth looking at.Cheers

"Experts estimate that psychosomatic illnesses account for up to 70 percent of man’s ills, including being too fat or too thin, migraines, allergies and other afflictions not strictly caused by physical reasons."

Kevin...

Olivia's picture

One of the basic discoveries of Dianetics was that unconsciousness and all the pain attendant upon it was stored in a part of the mind and that this pain and unconsciousness accumulated until it caused the organism to begin to die.

Another discovery of Dianetics was that this pain could be nullified or erased with a return to full consciousness and a rehabilitation toward survival.

I think this is what Rand calls being subjective, and yes, subjectivism can be cured and bring with it many "healing" wonders through the power of objective truth.

Dianetics caught my attention a few years back and I like the validation that it gives to the power of thought. But once you start talking "reactive mind," "analytic mind," "repressed memories" etc, you enter the realm of cloaking ideas in the sort of language that is impossible to give rise to any proof - just like the language of God. Then it all descends into plain quackery.

ECT-harm and benifits

Leonid's picture

Leonid
"medications or electro-convulsive therapy which is working so well that patients actually ask for it" -I've seen it myself doing my psychiatric internship. Every medication and treatment including ECT has side-effect. Major depression is life-threatening disease and benefit of the treatment is grossly overweights potential harm. If psychiatrist doesn't treat and patient died-commiting suicide then doctor would be liable for criminal and civil suit.Dr.Michael Chavin should know that ECT is administrated under general anaesthesia with myorelaxants, so no pain is involved.The only occasional side effect is short transient amnesia.

From what I understand party

Mark Hubbard's picture

From what I understand party pills work by burning up the serotonin: so great while they last, a real downer the next morning, and recognised as leading to clinical depression, therefore, (according to the radio interview I heard this afternoon). Millar's death would seem to be at the hands of depression: am I being too harsh in drawing the causal link?.

Drugs are great! But got to be prepared to take the consequences.Think I'll stick to the whisky nightcaps (albeit, the dentist who has just given me half a root canal is trying to talk me out of them).

Depression

Elijah Lineberry's picture

is something I simply cannot understand.

Despite being a 'World Authority' on most topics, this is one which has me mystified. Puzzled

I notice that Logan Millar has died.. (reading between the lines I presume it was suicide?).

All rather odd because if you read the list of motorised vehicles he had, I would have thought those would have ensured he was not depressed! Smiling

...not to mention very wisely ditching his girlfriend for someone younger and better looking, thereby avoiding her irrational nagging (and 'sagging') later in life.

So yes, this depression lark has me baffled...cannot help feeling it is a 'lack of moral fibre', rather than some faulty wiring, but there we are.

The future is so rosey for New Zealanders, with the best days to come for those who make an effort to succeed, or are already rich...so why would anyone want to be down in the dumps?!?!

Of what must a science of mind be composed?

KevinOwen's picture

"Like height, skin color, or any number of genetically mediated traits, baseline mood is just an individual characteristic that everyone is born with."

Hi Scot. A smart man can only use the knowledge he has to solve a problem. If that knowledge is limited he/she might come up with a false solution. When you introduce new knowledge he/she then might come up with a new answer to the solution. As I change base line mood in individuals daily and measure it on graph [before and after] to me your statement is false.

When one is dealing with thought he is not dealing with chemicals, as they [chemicals] don't have the ability to think. Some say they do but when you ask them which ones they draw a blank. Cheers.

The Discovery Of Dianetics
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n... [full article]

One of the basic discoveries of Dianetics was that unconsciousness and all the pain attendant upon it was stored in a part of the mind and that this pain and unconsciousness accumulated until it caused the organism to begin to die
Another discovery of Dianetics was that this pain could be nullified or erased with a return to full consciousness and a rehabilitation toward survival.

Of what must a science of mind be composed?
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n...

1. An answer to the goal of thought.

2. A single source of all insanities, psychoses, neurosis, compulsions, repressions and social derangements.

3. Invariant scientific evidence as to the basic nature and functional background of the human mind.

4. Techniques, the art of application, by which the discovered single source could be invariably cured; ruling out, of course, the insanities of malformed, deleted or pathologically injured brains or nervous systems and, particularly, iatrogenic psychoses (those caused by doctors and involving the destruction of the living brain itself).

5. Methods of prevention of mental derangement.

6. The cause and cure of all psychosomatic ills which number, some say, 70 percent of man's listed ailments.

Simple though it is, Dianetics does and is these things:

1. It is an organized science of thought built on definite axioms (statements of natural laws on the order of those of the physical sciences).

2. It contains a therapeutic technique with which can be treated all inorganic mental ills and all organic psychosomatic ills, with assurance of complete cure in unselected cases.

3. It produces a condition of ability and rationality for man well in advance of the current norm, enhancing rather than destroying his vigor and personality.

4. Dianetics gives a complete insight into the full potentialities of the mind, discovering them to be well in excess of past supposition.

5. The basic nature of man is discovered in Dianetics rather than hazarded or postulated, since that basic nature can be brought into action in any individual completely. And that basic nature is discovered to be good.

6. The single source of mental derangement is discovered and demonstrated, on a clinical or laboratory basis, by Dianetics.

7. The extent, storage capacity and recallability of human memory is finally established by Dianetics®.

8. The full recording abilities of the mind are discovered by Dianetics® with the conclusion that they are quite dissimilar to former suppositions.

9. Dianetics® bring forth the nongerm theory of disease, complementing biochemistry and Pasteur's work on the germ theory to embrace the field.

10. With Dianetics® ends the "necessity" of destroying the brain by shock or surgery to effect "tractibility" in mental patients and "adjust" them.

11. A workable explanation of the physiological effects of drugs and endocrine substances exists in Dianetics, and many problems posed by endocrinology are answered.

12. Various educational, sociological, political, military and other human studies are enhanced by Dianetics®.

13. The field of cytology is aided by Dianetics, as well as other fields of research.

This then, is a skeletal sketch of what would be the scope of the science of mind and of what is the scope of Dianetics®.

Genetic range

atlascott's picture

Like height, skin color, or any number of genetically mediated traits, baseline mood is just an individual characteristic that everyone is born with. "Depression" can occur in a person with an acceptably-levelled baseline mood based on stress, trauma, or other life events. Others have an unacceptably low baseline mood. That's why "the truth" for some is the need for chemicals which boost the sense of well-being, and "the truth" for others is resolving contradictions.

There is a real danger to young, sensitive, intellectual people ho take ideas seriously--they are quickly taught that life makes no sense, goals are unimportant fabrications, effort is futile--all the things which nihilism and socialism advance. They can take it seriously and wonder what in hell they are doing and what the point is. I dont know that that is true depression. But for my part, I found Objectivism at the right time. With a facile, motivated mind, I quickly unlearned the multiculturalist nonsense and discovered he 'reason' for living tht was there all along, but that I was told was no reason at all: Me, myself and I. There are thousands of young adults out there despairing of the purposeless, gray world their state of the postmodernist-art liberal education has left them with. Ideas matter trmendously, because premises absolutely ARE the foundation which give new info and experience their context, and therefore, meaning.

There is a 3rd category--those with bi-polar disorder who go from manic to depressive independant of outside stimulus. No amount of counselling is going to reason out the problem.

I agree that we should all fix reason firmly in her seat, but we should be careful before blaming people with such prolems by tagging them as insufficiently logical to work out their problems. No number of hammers will ever unscrew a phillips head screw--you need a screwdriver for that job.

Scott DeSalvo

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!

Leonid - electro-convulsive therapy

KevinOwen's picture

"medications or electro-convulsive therapy which is working so well that patients actually ask for it"

Leonid. I don't agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it.

There was an article in our local paper a while back stating that Rotorua was the Electric Shock Capital of New Zealand [most treatments delivered]. Anyone with depression might consider heading down this way for a shot of electricity.

ELECTRIC SHOCK TREATMENT
PAIN AND FRAUD IN THE
NAME OF THERAPY

"Electric shock should not be available as a choice just as thalidomide is not available to pregnant woman. After fifty years of practicing this hoax, psychiatrists are not likely to suddenly agree that it is harmful. As soon as they do, they know there would be a rush of criminal and civil suits from which they would never recover. Governments should outlaw it."

Dr. Michael Chavin

LeonidDepression is a

Leonid's picture

Leonid

Depression is a symtom of different clinical conditions like fever. It can be part of organic disease like cancer or could be normal reaction to the difficult circumstances or to the loss-like mourning. In all these cases we are dealing with psychological, not biochemical conditions.However bipolar disease or major depression is not triggered by any external events,it is result of inbalance of brain's neurotransmitors and usualy responses well to medications or electro-convulsive therapy which is working so well that patients actually ask for it.

Scientology sez: ' no test for chemical imbalance' . . .

William Scott Scherk's picture

Kevin Owen fulminates about the horror of psychiatric abuse -- and the scam of 'chemical imbalance' as an underlying cause of clinical depression. He invites SOLOists to contact the Auckland bureau of the 'Citizens Commission on Human Rights,' and to view the web page of the CCHR at http://www.cchr.org

Before you call or follow the link, be aware that the CCHR was founded by the Church of Scientology in 1969, and is committed to "investigate and expose psychiatric violations of human rights."

What is in it for Scientology? Well, one could check with the experts, like, um, Tom Cruise . . .

WSS

The Hoax of "Chemical Imbalance"

KevinOwen's picture

When someone goes to a psychiatrist, psychologist and is diagnosed with a chemical imbalance there is no test to show what chemical is out of balance or should be rebalanced

It is just a scam to get you on their product [prozac etc]

PSYCHIATRY,
BETRAYING AND
DRUGGING CHILDREN
FOR PROFIT

The Hoax of "Chemical Imbalance"

Through massive promotion and
marketing campaigns, psychiatric drugs
are increasingly prescribed as the panacea
for life's inevitable crises and challenges.
Psychiatry's most recent campaign is the
much touted theory of the "chemical
imbalance" in the brain, or
"neurobiological disorder."
Psychiatrist David Kaiser is unequivocal
about the lie of neurobiological disorder.
In 1996, he stated:
... modern psychiatry has yet to
convincingly prove the
genetic/biological cause of
any single mental illness...

Patients [have] been diagnosed with
"chemical imbalances" despite the fact that
no test exists to support such a claim, and ...
there is no real conception of what a correct
chemical balance would look like.
When this pitch is successfully used to
secure the cooperation of unwitting
parents it establishes a dangerous
precedent.

For more information contact:
Citizens Commission on Human Rights
Ph/Fax 09 373 3897
P.O. Box 5257 Auckland

http://www.cchr.org

Hmmm....

Joe Idoni's picture

Thank you all for your commentary. There are several concpets that perhaps I should have clarified.
1. I do believe that chemical balances exist, just not on their own.
2. I do not believe that medication is the CURE (vs. treatment) but at the same time I do not believe that therapy would (or should) have immediate response.
3. My original topic was on depression. I have never experienced or been diagnosed with anything but, so as far as I know, I cannot speak on matters which I have little or no knowledge.
4. I believe I also wanted to know who currently experiences clinical depression and/or how their current status with this ailment has(nt) been affected in relation to their understanding of Objectivism.

And as an aside, Milesian.... how does being a lesbian and being depressed correspond with normalcy? Being attracted to persons of the same gender and wanting to end your life because it's unbearable don't necessarily fall into the same category. Nor can you heal a borken arm simply by the power of your mind.

Idoni

Let me share a personal anecdote...

atlascott's picture

I dated a woman who was eventually dx'ed with bipolar disorder. (No, much to my chagrin, it was not Ash the Lovely).  She was either a blast, or a raving lunatic.  And lest you think this is hyperbole, let me throw out a few phrases and see if that will suffice:  hysterical crying jags over nothing, throwing an iron, beer bottle and brick at me, trying to beat me up, terrorizing everyone in her life.

She was driving ME crazy.

I finaly got her to see a therapist.  She convinced the therapist that I was the problem.

I went to the therapist with her.  Once.  Within 15 minutes, I had the therapist turned completely around.  She was dx'ed, and she freaked out about it, feeling betrayed by the therapist.  She was prescribed meds.  I guess she was not mature enough to accept that there was a problem.  I literally had to escape from her by just leaving with the clothes on my back, as she beat on me with her bare fists and threw clothing and small appliances at me .  She threw my suits out the window, and when I returned during working hours to pick up a few things, I saw that she basically destroyed alot of things in that apartment, including her own.  Many of my suits were irretreivable from the power lines from which they dangled.

She is back on the East Coast, married, and supposedly not taking any medications, which is a scary and sad proposition.

She shone brightly, high and hot, but too often fell into despair and violence.

My opinion is that it should be treated.  Manic is only entertaining for a few minutes.

"True love is hard to find, sometimes you think you have true love and then you catch the early flight home from San Diego and a couple of nude people jump out of your bathroom blindfolded like a goddamn magic show ready to double team your girlfriend..."

You're Right, I Don't Understand

Ashley's picture

Hi Michael:

I am unclear as to what you disagree with me about. You said "I disagree with Ashley's assertion that these depressed people are not normal" without clarifying which people you are talking about. Then you go on to say that "chemical depression...prevents the perception of the possible alternative". I am not catching the distinction between what you are saying and what I said in my previous post. I made reference to situational depression, which is a NORMAL reaction - so I did not assert that those people were not normal. In fact, at no time did I say that any depressed people were not normal. I said "organic depression, which is not based on events and is a chemical imbalance that is not normal." Having assorted body chemistries that fall out of ranges considered standard, typical, or average means that you have a chemical imbalance that is not normal. It is no reflection on a person at all.

You make a joke about not thinking people are too happy - but in my experience that isn't true. I have gone into the doctor quite a few times and he thought I seemed a little too "high". In the years that I wasn't managing my behaviors at all, these "happy times" led to all sorts of nuttiness. I left my husband in a "happy time." I quit my job and left for the South Pacific with every cent I had during a "happy time." I decided I didn't want to get a Ph.D after all, the day before classes started, during a "happy time." Let me stress that any of these might be good decisions for some people - but the point is that I was in such a manic state that I barely knew what I was doing at all. And noone around me worried because I was so vivacious and clever and wonderful that what could be wrong?

Not all people with bipolar disorder think it should be treated. Many brilliant people have it and attribute much of their creativity and passion to manic episodes. Kay Redfield Jamison writes magnificently about this in the books "Touched with Fire" and "An Unquiet Mind." I do think the higher part of a mood swing is incredible. An incredibly powerful feeling. If I could only have that I would take it. But I can no longer deal with the emotional, professional, and financial setbacks.

I'd exlain it, but why bother? You wouldn't understand.

milesian's picture

Obviously, we agree that chemical range differences exist. We also seem to agree that cognitive therapy is better than drugs therapy -- as long as it works. If it does not work, then take the drugs.

Joe Idoni suggested: "To me this is the false mind-body dichotomy. When one says that they have a chemical imbalance, it sounds to me as though they are saying that in order to correct it, they are relying on drugs to fix a problem that could easily be fixed through therapy."

I point out that if you break your arm, physical therapy is part of the recovery, but a cast is also important, and a splint might be an immediate albeit temporary solution. In other words, given that these ranges of chemical states exist -- as do arms -- then it is not a mind-body dichotomy fallacy to deal with them at a chemical level.

Also, it is fallacious to think that those who are depressed as a result of their chemistry can just snap out it by volition. The problem is NOT "easily fixed through therapy."

I disagree with Ashley's assertion that these depressed people are not normal. (She is a lesbian, right? And she claims that these depressed people need to be normal? What am I missing here?) I believe that as there are ranges of height etc., etc., you are what you are. If you are not HAPPY with that, then it is within your power to change it. It is a failing to say that you are unhappy being depressed but you cannot do anything about it. If you can recognize the unhappiness, it must be because you know that some other state exists and you have experienced it.

Again, I agree, that this is not necessarily the same thing as chemical depression which prevents the perception of the possible alternative.

Some people are depressed. Others are jovial. We do not attempt to cure the naive pollyannas who bounce around being happy no matter what happens. You never hear one of them say, "Oh, I was pretty happy at the funeral and I guess it was inappropriate, so I am taking depressant drugs now and seeing a joy counselor so I can come down to Earth like a normal person."

Was Jeremiah clinically depressed? Was Socrates? The only reason that Ayn Rand was not was that she was on uppers for "weight control."

Optimizing your own biochemistry is fine. Make yourself. Chemically making yourself some pre-defined "normal" (by what standard) is a dystopian social nightmare, Brave New World, or worse, something by Philip K. Dick.

________________________________________________________
"I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
and danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings."

I was diagnosed with bipolar

Ashley's picture

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder (manic depression) when I was fairly young, about 20. My grandfather had same and was on old-school lithium for most of his adult life. I was not too into having that diagnosis or taking medications for many years after that. I made it ok, but I probably would have enjoyed life more had I been managing it with a doctor and occasional medication. I had a few manic episodes where I did very stupid things, and then the rebound depression that lasted for months after. I was not managing lots of things well and used drugs that worsened my mood swings.

In the past 6 years, since a serious car accident, I have been much more aware of the need to manage my mood somewhat. I was told by several doctors that I needed to be on medication, and that I would need to be on them for the rest of my life. Then I met a doctor at UPenn who told me I was in charge of my life, and that if I didn't want to take medication I wouldn't anyway, so he helped me figure out how to go about it in a different way. It requires vigilant rating of my irritability, sadness, anger, and sleep every day. I keep a chart and can notice if my mood is trending outside of a normal range. If I notice that it is, I try to manage it with awareness, diet, sleep, and exercise. If it does not improve over a week or so, at that point I go on two medications - a mood stabiliser and an anti-depressant. They take a month or so to be really effective, during which time I have to really monitor myself. I can usually take them for about 3 months, and if all is well at that point I taper off them. Working in this manner my depression has been well under control for over 3 years. I have gone back on medication about once a year.

I do certainly think a distinction should be made between situational depression, which is a normal reaction to a specific traumatic event in one's life, and organic depression, which is not based on events and is a chemical imbalance that is not normal. Situational depression can he helped by short term drugs, but more importantly will be helped with the passage of time and by dealing with the underlying issue. Organic depression is not helped as much by talk therapy, except that one can learn to be more aware of triggers and to deal with stress in healthy ways. Medication may be required to correct chemical imbalances, though.

Drugs

Michael Stuart Kelly's picture

I am only in favor of using drugs for depression as a last resort. Unfortunately, in our culture (I call it the "remote control culture" but it could be called "pop a pill for every ill culture") the use of drugs is being pushed into the place of first resort.

Joe, I have met people who suffered from chemical imbalances in the brain resulting in not only depression, but a wide range of emotional states. My own empirical experiences led me to create chemical imbalances in my own brain that resulted in a full-flaming paranoia so long as the imbalance was present. Normally, without such stimulant, it is extremely rare that I feel fear.

Chemical imbalance need not be the cause of depression, though. It can also come from poor choices. My former father-in-law made a poor life choice with a lover, went into a deep depression and gradually withered away. It took him two years to die that way. That certainly came from his thinking, not organism. A chemical imbalance probably resulted later, but the cause was poor reaction to poor choices.

Still, an organic chemical imbalance most definitely can be a cause of depression. It is a case-by-case thing.

Michael

chemical imbalances

Titan's picture

Chemical imbalances are a scientific fact, and may range from mild to extreme, ie schizophrenia. Psychotherapeutic drugs have definitely help tens of thousands of lives. That being said, I think the first step to trying to resolve a problem of depression should be to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist first. Being able to change for the better is best undertaken without the use of substances because the problem of addiction can occur which will just make the problem worse, not too mention there is a value that one can experience by going through a 'trial by fire' to overcome psychological ills. If psychological counseling doesn't work than a combination of both drugs and counseling may be what will work out best. And then in some cases the only thing that can even remotely help are some heavy duty drugs.

The DeSalvo take on depression...

atlascott's picture

Like height or any other genetically mediated trait, one's sort of default mood RANGE is genetically determined.  This means that, yes, there are people out there whose lives, to be livable, require some help.  Before science got its foothold, these were the village outcasts, and killed themselves if things got too unbearable.  Some people need immediate, pharmceutical-grade help immediately and continuously.

Where one spends their time within that individual emotional range is entirely volitional.  ENTIRELY VOLITIONAL.  Or at least, it can be.  I think the vast majority of people on medication now would be well served by taking this to heart and trying behavior modification, and reducing or eliminating the meds.  Depending on the therapist, therapy might actually be enabling the depression and helplessness.  Let's remember that therapists need an income, and a sick person who can pay the bill is an annuity--unless you cure them.  This model may be more implicit than explicit, and the therapist may not think about it in a very concious sense.

I had been depressed after

stormyeyes's picture

I had been depressed after my first serious relationship with a girl broke down, but I doubt it was true, clinical depression. I got through it by hardening my heart and resolutely refusing to care about romance for several years -- until my wife caught me off-guard five years ago.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.