...Rand wasn't also reacting directly to the militant feminism around at the time.

Their message was basically, "I choose women over men...because men are dumb, violent, repressive, rapists...etc" (Take your pick).

So when Rand was asked if she wanted a female president (in that feminist setting) her answer was, "I prefer men!"

That was like saying, "screw you!" to the feminist ideology. Most people had become so brainwashed (and still are) with the notion that women were disadvantaged in relation to men, and therefore needed to be patronized, they were so offended!

Imagine Rand had said that she "would prefer to have a "woman president" because "she" would get the job done better than a man": her comment would have been considered uncontroversial.

Kelly,

I don't qualify as a les/bi chick, but you can flirt with me if you want

find some hot bi or lesbian chicks for me to flirt with!!! Somehow I don't think that would be better for you.

I could flirt with Linz. Would that be better?

Kelly

All this hetero flirtation is making me nauseated

I'll take you up on that, and I'll wear a gardenia in my hair!

Kelly

I'll take you to the gun range anytime you want (or anywhere else for that matter)!

can shoot guns with their fingernails painted a pretty pink and a gardenia in their hair. I always wear lacy underwear when I go to the gun range.

Kelly

Irving Berlin's lyrics relevant to the conversation:

"The Girl That I Marry"

FRANK BUTLER:
The girl that I marry will have to be
As soft and as pink as a nursery
The girl I call my own
Will wear satin and laces and smell of cologne
Her nails will be polished
And in her hair she'll wear a gardenia
And I'll be there
Instead of flittin', I'll be sittin'
Next to her I'm cheerful like a kitten
A doll I can carry,
The girl that I marry must be.

Instead of flittin', I'll be sittin'
Next to her I'm cheerful like a kitten
A doll I can carry,
The girl that I marry must be

"Can't Get A Man With A Gun"
ANNIE OAKLEY:
Oh my Mother was frightened by a shotgun, they say,
That's why I'm such a wonderful shot.
I'd be am out in the cactus and I practice all day,
And now tell me what have I got.
I'm quick on the trigger with targets not much bigger
Than a pen point, I'm number one.
But my score with a feller is lower than a cellar-
Oh you can't get a man with a gun.
When I'm with a pistol
I sparkle like a crystal,
Yes, I shine like the morning sun.
But I lose all my luster
When with a Bronco Buster.
Oh you can't get a man with a gun.
With a gun, with a gun,
No, you can't get a man with a gun.
If I went to battle
With someone's herd of cattle
You'd have steak when the job was done.
But if shot the herder,
They'd holler "bloody murder"
And you can't shoot a male
In the tail like a quail
Oh you can't get a man with a gun.
I'm cool, brave and daring
To see a lion glaring
When I'm out with my Remington
But a look from a mister
Will raise a fever blister
Oh you can't get a man with a gun.
The gals with "umbrellars"
Are always out with fellers
In the rain or the blazing sun
But a man never trifles
With gals who carry rifles
Oh you can't get a man with a gun.
With a gun, with a gun,
No, you can't get a man with a gun.
A man's love is mighty
It'll leave him buy a nightie
For a gal who he thinks is fun.
But they don't by pajamas
For Pistol packin' mamas,
And you can't get a hug
From a mug with a slug,
Oh you can't get a man with a gun.

I seem to remember an epidose of Loony Tunes where Prissy the Chicken continually tries to get Foghorn Leghorn by hitting him silly with a rolling pin...

Landon, that Jessica Alba pic...you just gave us our show poster!

(Too bad it would never fly!)

Speaking of that song...our president, in light of the (continuing) murder spree in Philadelphia, is using that song to promote the anti-violence campaigns, including a contest where people rewrite said song to reflect the current issue. Ok enough, but then she wanted to do a "gun swap" program...I asked her if that many theatergoers were packing heat...in a politically correct stance, she tried to make a case, but I insisted that most of the violence here is in the bad parts, part of gang wars and drug deals...and that it's pointless to have people turn in their guns, legal registered gunowners have no need, and any "criminals" who turned them in would only get them again. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

but it's making my job harder, trying to find an iconic image for this show that doesn't emphasize the gun, when the show is ANNIE GET YOUR GUN. Geez...

and I'm surprised you didn't post a picture of Molotov Cocktease from VENTURE BROS!

For as big of a P & T Bullshit Fan as you I'm suprised you arent aware of this clip

as well as this.

Ok that and about a billion "bad girl" comics from the 90's

Hate to say it but I think it might be easier to "get a man with a gun" than you think.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Diana, you're right. I just re-read the article and Rand's argument is this (all quotes from Ayn Rand's article):

A woman cannot experience herself as a female while dealing with inferiors. She cannot experience herself as feminine qua leader. Yet a rational woman "never loses the awareness of her own sexual identity and" the sexual identity of the men she deals with. This is why even in non-sexual contexts, a woman can enjoy a man holding the door for her: it stresses each's awareness of the other's sexual identity, i.e., it makes a man aware of his masculinity and the female aware of her femininity.

Generally, there is no conflict between a woman's desire to experience herself as a woman and a leadership role. She is regularly dealing with equals and superiors. The president is sui generis in that he deals exclusively with inferiors ("not inferiors as persons, but in respect to the hierarchy of their positions, their work, and their responsibilities"). A woman president would be in a position that would force her to repress (or at least repress her awareness of) her femininity. "To act as the superior, the leader, virtually the ruler of all the men she deals with, would be an excruciating psychological torture. It would require a total depersonalization, an utter selflessness, and an incommunicable loneliness; she would have to supress (or repress) every personal aspect of her own character and attitude; she could not be herself, i.e., a woman; she would have to function only as a mind, not as a person; i.e., as a thinker devoid of personal values."

So, yes, Dr. Peikoff's characterization was incorrect, as far as I can tell, or at least incomplete.

I stand corrected, Thomas. Thanks for posting the full text.

I'd have to read the essay again to be sure, but I remember AR making a far stronger (and somewhat different) claim than Dr. Peikoff suggests in that quote.

-- Diana Hsieh
diana@dianahsieh.com
NoodleFood

From the general Q&A session of Dr. Peikoff's "Philosophy of Education."

"I am very confident in saying that if Ayn Rand had voted for president in a contest between Margaret Thatcher and Jimmy Carter, she would certainly have voted for Margaret Thatcher for President of the United States. There's no question that she did not consider it wrong. She was talking from one specific aspect only: symbollicly. Symbollicly she thought the President of the United States is the position of leadership of...the supreme commander of the military, and given her view of masculinity and femininity, she thought it was much more *appropriate* that it be a man than that it be a woman."

"It was either in "Love, Sex, and Romance" or the general Q&A to his education lectures."

I've heard that lecture and that course, but I'm pretty sure I've never heard anything like what you report. I heard LS&R just recently -- and took notes on it -- so I'm quite certain of that. I'm less certain of the education lectures, but I think that would have been something I'd remember.

Plus, it still doesn't make sense.

Does anyone else know one way or the other?

-- Diana Hsieh
diana@dianahsieh.com
NoodleFood

Can you cite a source?

It was either in "Love, Sex, and Romance" or the general Q&A to his education lectures. 

"Dr. Peikoff has said that Ayn Rand was speaking symbolicly--that it is more appropriate for the president--the commander in chief--to be a man rather than a woman."

I'm not familiar with any such statement, although I've heard him speak about AR's view of sex. Can you cite a source? I'd be pretty shocked if he said that, since it would amount to, "Don't worry, she didn't really mean it." And it's just not consistent with her essay either.

As for her voting for Thatcher rather than Carter, that's more plausible, since I'm doubtful that sex was her paramount criterion for presidential candidates.

-- Diana Hsieh
diana@dianahsieh.com
NoodleFood

My guess is that a lot of younger men (myself included) find older women attractive for just that reason - they like the competition.

Ditto.

Jennifer

-- Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

Actually, this is for the guys who say they like the woman with a gun and their masculine traits: Why don't you feel the same way towards guys, then? (I could have fun with this, but it's actually a serious question. Just watch out for Linz!) What REALLY attracts you to a women, her masculine or feminine quality? What about the stereotype of the bulldyke or the tomboy? How many guys see a big, strapping manly women and say, "Oh Yeah!" and bust through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man? Or, is this one of those times where we need to be aware of "false dichotomies?"

Strength doesn't imply masculinity. It's precisely the weird contradiction of "masculine woman" that makes the bulldyke so hideous, from the unrepentant heterosexual standpoint. [Shudder]

I've consistently found that strong, intelligent and self-confident men are attracted to the same qualities in women. My guess is that a lot of younger men (myself included) find older women attractive for just that reason - they like the competition.

That attraction would tend to dim somewhat, with the introduction of strap-ons.

"All other important considerations being equal (i.e. ability), would you prefer to be led by a man or a woman?"

Dr. Peikoff has said that Ayn Rand was speaking symbolicly--that it is more appropriate for the president--the commander in chief--to be a man rather than a woman. He added that he was confident that in presidential race between Margaret Thatcher and Jimmy Carter (I think that was his example), Ayn Rand would have voted for Thatcher.

...as being: "All other important considerations being equal (i.e. ability), would you prefer to be led by a man or a woman?"

She answered that she would opt for a man. That is because she felt that, "the essence of femininity is hero worship - the desire to look up to man."

Seen from that point of view, her message is quite positive. As a woman, she loved men (if worthy) more than she loved women. She probably couldn't relate to the idea that this was a sexist attitude; because her love for men, her passion for life and her values were all integrated into one.

(Of course, if anyone who has actually read the essay wants to jump in and prove me wrong - then please do so.)

It would be terrible if I looked around and saw only men I was far superior to.

To be clear, I'm not sitting on a high horse looking down at the unwashed masses. Like it or not, however, it is a challenge -- and a rare treat -- to encounter those in the world at large (both male and female) who pursue a consistent standard of excellence.

As for prerequisites, we'll just have to agree to disagree, as I think that is more an issue of personal preference.

Jennifer

-- Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

It would be terrible if I looked around and saw only men I was far superior to. But what I want, rather than to see people who are better, is to see equals. If a man is better, well, fine. But only equality is a prerec for my love.

Kelly

Marcus, I think that Rand quote (even if paraphrased) captures what I'm saying pretty well. I didn't have a chance to look it up today, so thanks for posting it.

Kelly, the "looking up thing" might just be a very personal thing for me. I'm such an overachiever that it would be nice to stand back and admire someone who's achieved and experienced even more. For me, that is an important part of hero worship. I have to ruminate about this a bit longer, but I think that is the root of it. It makes me think of Dagny's quote: "There wasn't a man there I couldn't squash ten of." I say that not from a place of arrogance, but simply from looking at the path I've traveled, and where I expect to go from here.

Jennifer

-- Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

deleted

Joe-
Physiology, nature vs. nurture. To me tomboys are sexy. Boys aren't. Sorry.

X

..."the Taming of the Shrew" and "Kiss me Kate".

Shakespeare was perhaps gay and Cole Porter definitely was.

So what does that tell us about sexual psychology?

It's about right in spirit, if not to the letter...

But I seem to remember reading a quote somewhere that Rand once said something like,

"I don't say that a woman couldn't do the job, or that she couldn't do it well. Just that I would find it depressing that she would have to do it."

I probably haven't got the quote right, but it was something in that spirit. Does anyone know the quote I am referring to?

Anyway, expressed in that way, I don't really find her opinion to be objectionable, especially as she is just stating one of her preferences. And surely that is what voting for President is all about. Discriminating between choices.

It's telling that ANNIE GET YOUR GUN is presented as a romantic comedy with a happy ending, the show first appearing in the forties through the sixties. Comedy because the women is laughed at and eventually gives in? Who was laughing, the men? Who was happy, the man? Was Annie really happy?

(The show is loosely bases on Annie Oakley, supposedly the real Frank Butler retired and became Annie's manager, realizing what a great shot she was. And the real Annie Oakley supported women's causes, as well.)

I just realized that Annie's gun is a phallic symbol...Frank Butler was upset that her gun was bigger than his. Heh, with that in mind, the song "You Can't Get a Man with a Gun" takes on a whole new meaning!

Actually, this is for the guys who say they like the woman with a gun and their masculine traits: Why don't you feel the same way towards guys, then? (I could have fun with this, but it's actually a serious question. Just watch out for Linz!) What REALLY attracts you to a women, her masculine or feminine quality? What about the stereotype of the bulldyke or the tomboy? How many guys see a big, strapping manly women and say, "Oh Yeah!" and bust through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man? Or, is this one of those times where we need to be aware of "false dichotomies?"

Aaron, you're right not to appeal to statistics (that there are others with the same idea as "About a Women President" to justify her article. However, I think it goes beyond Rand's "same era" to about a thousand or two years. Not appealing to statistics of years, either, but the idea that this is a deeply entrenched attitude throughout history for a reason, whether good or bad. That's significant because Rand "challenged 2000 years of Christianity" and everthing else popular and bad, but (seemingly) ACCEPTED this one thing. (Again, with differences, most notably that her heroes did not want the women to hide their proverbial light under a bushel). She still accepted the idea of a women surrendering. Was this an oversight of Rand? Or acknowledging the biological reality?

I still think it's the latter, since straight men are (supposedly) not attracted to men with guns...Interesting idea, look at the cut scene from Fountainhead where Wynand says to Roark "I love you, in every way except that which a fool would think of first," implying something biological in attraction? Would have been a different story if Wynand "gave up his gun"...

wait, he did, didn't he?...

I've never been keen on Rand's comments concerning a woman president; the comparison to Annie Get Your Gun (which I'd not known the plot to before) just shows that there's other material from the same era which is worse. Throwing a shooting contest to woo an insecure guy? Pathetic. Women that cut themselves short in career, sports, or hiding their intelligence (hee hee!) piss me off.

Women proficient with guns? Sexy! (OK, admittedly women with guns at all is sexy to begin with ) Female profs adept at knowledge I want to know - hot! Successful women? Martha Stewart, Meg Whitman - babes. I'm all for a woman president (please not Hillary, please not Hillary..) - and it would be fun to break some furniture with her in the Oval Office.

I truly do disagree with you, Jennifer. I don't feel a need to look up to a man at all. I just want to look across and think, "Wow!" Why the looking up thing?

Kelly

Linz, If my music teacher in high school could see it now, he'd drop dead of shock. If my heavy metal high school self could see me know, I'd be dead of shock.

... the sexual psychology stuff. I've no idea why anyone finds it remotely interesting. Just get on with the bonking, I say. I'm just so impressed that Joe has even heard of Annie Get Your Gun. From an era that knew what a tune was. I'm encouraged. Provisionally, tentatively, to be sure ... but encouraged.

Jen's got it in one.

And, further: the perhaps unrealised truth that many Objectivists might consider is that Dagny and Dominique were created to not only portray heroic women, but to portray them specifically within the context of and with reference to, heroic men.

Joe, I think you've raised some interesting questions here, and this is actually a topic Kelly and I discussed when I was in Atlanta. We were joking around about the challenges of dating, and I said "Try being a CEO. It's a great conversation killer."

Now, you are speaking of a woman president, and I must say that I agree with Rand on this one for what I believe to be the principle she was illustrating. To make an analogy regarding my own situation, the idea of "being in charge" during my work life makes me crave not being in charge during my downtime. I would imagine that for a female president, this would pose a significantly greater challenge. If she is the "most powerful" woman in the world by decree of her position, to what kind of man would she enjoy submitting at the end of the day? It would be difficult for both her and her husband, from how I see it playing out. He might feel slightly emasculated by being Husband-of-Mrs. President, and she might feel that she has no equal.

I don't see this as simply a bedroom issue, either. I'd like a man I can look up to (insert short joke here) in every way, so how does that translate? If he's to understand me completely, I'm inclined to think he would need to be in a similar position in his work life, and preferably in a bigger one. That might sound odd, but that is the dynamic I desire for myself.

Jennifer

-- Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

Sustaining the Churchill notes struck by a number of us in the SOLO thread devoted to rough language, I notice the following, from the article devoted to "21st Century" at Answers.com:

http://www.answers.com/topic/21st-century

A woman once told Winston Churchill: "IN the year 2100, women will rule the world." Churchill asked: "Still?" By 2005 with the appointment of Margaret Wilson as Parliament's speaker, New Zealand had women at the head of all branches of Government: Sovereign, Governor-General, Prime Minister, Speaker and Chief Justice.

Would the story of Annie Oakley fly today?

Another passage from Peikoff from OPAR that may help:

from Chapter 9, "Happiness" :SEX AS METAPHYSICAL

"There is a biological basis of human sexuality and a counterpart in the animal world. But all animal needs and pleasures are transfigured in the context of the rational animal. This is apparent even in regard to such simple needs as food and shelter...The principle is that a pleasure which was once purely biological becomes, in the life of a conceptual being, largely spiritual. The principle applies preeminently to sex. No human pleasure as intense as that of sex can be dominantly a matter of phsyical sensation. Dominantly, sex is an emotion, and the cause of that emotion is intellectual.

"The fact that a man's sex life is shaped by his conclusions and value-judgements is evident in every aspect. It is evident in the settings he prefers, the state of dress, the caresses, positions, and practices, and the kind of partner...."

So my current theory is that if a need for heirarchy has a biological basis, it gets played out in the realm of work AND sex, making Rand's essay more sensible. If a need for heirarchy is not biological, is it arbitrary or dictated by reality, say, the way knowledge is structured heirarchally?

Heh, I like that! Works with Linz, too, he dealt Linzily with everyone from escaped Saddamites to FRORdsters to Limp dicked KASSlesses...

Um, anyways...wow, that episode sounds like it was directly inspired from ANNIE GET YOUR GUN, actually. Neat.

Kelly, I thought a little more about your question, I have a theory on it. Someone commented elsewhere that Howard Roark's brand of creativity was that of an engineer, and not an artist (not sure if I totally agree with that, since Roark/Rand's breed of art would integrate that engineering into a larger context), but it brought to my mind the emphasis on heirarchy in Objectivist epistemology. Rational thought is very heirarchal, and often associated with masculinity. Many animal societies are structured heirarchally as well. (And I wonder if those myths of Atalanta, Brunhilde, and Annie Oakley were all written by men?) Anyway, since animals have exhibited heirarchal behaviors, and if the biological factor is an influence, could it be that the idea of a woman president as psychologically damaging is based on that supposed need for heirarchy?

When I snarkily suggested "don't give me the line about "higher positions" or other alternatives to the presidency. Rand picked that for it's symbolism; substitute president for any other possible "hightest position" to get the point," I think I may have missed this. Rand the engineer was looking at the hightest linear point, but a non-linear approach COULD have a woman at the top, and still be able to "switch off" at home. But this poses a problem for Rand the integrator, who tried to unify all these things. THAT'S why I referred to ATLAS when I couldn't answer Kelly's question directly, because I was thinking of that "grand unification theory." Contradictions don't exist. Does this make a woman president who can switch it off a contradiction or simply multi-faceted?

So is the question now that heirachy has a biological basis?

I wasn't clear. They don't mean the same thing, but "irrationality" implies, not simply reaching a false conclusion, but willfully eschewing reason. The reason I said "means evasion" is because I was trying to make it clear that Kelly's was a moral charge even though she may have no intended it to be so.

FYI, "irrational" means "evasive."

Sez who?

These are two legitimate words whose meanings are distinct from each other. Conflating the two serves no legitimate purpose.

As far as villifying Rand, I think her opinion of a woman president is irrational. But it isn't surprising, given her age and culture. Not excusing, just understanding.

FYI, "irrational" means "evasive." Rand may have made an error in this case (although I'm not convinced she did), but we have every reason to believe she did so honestly.

Your firearms examples recall a memorable episode of THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW. Thelma Lou's cousin Karen comes to Mayberry and Barney and Thelma Lou "fix her up" with Andy. He relegates her to a stereotypically domestic role and, she, entering a skeet-shooting contest in which local-hero Andy is ordinarily favored, blows him away, as it were. A shamed and intimidated Andy apologizes. As Sheriff, he dealt Andily with
everyone from escaped prisoners male and female to powerful elected officials, but a strong woman as his date proved less than aphrodisiac. Later, son Opie's schoolteacher Helen proved no shrinking violet either, telling Andy off big time when presumptuous jealousy got the better of his peacemaker's poise.

I certainly don't think Rand was alone in her view. The idea that strong women, powerful women, smart women, successful women are not attractive is prevalent in our culture, and was even more prevalent when Rand was writing. It's the reason women's magazines run articles on what to do when you get promoted and make more than your husband. It's the reason I got more guys in college bars when I told them I was a communications major. I truly do think most of it is cultural, but until we have some cleaner people to do psychological studies on, I can't prove it. As far as the biological component, I think it must be there somehow. That would account for the near universality of rape fantasies and how much I (and lots of other women I know) like to be bossed in bed. But I don't like to be bossed in other parts of life. Just me? I don't know.

As far as villifying Rand, I think her opinion of a woman president is irrational. But it isn't surprising, given her age and culture. Not excusing, just understanding.

Kelly

Kelly's pointed out that there is much about the biological aspect we don't know about...for those looking to tread slightly safer ground, there's the main point I was making about the vilification of Rand for her essay when she was not alone in her view...

And Kelly, to be honest, I don't know how to answer your question, which is why I referred to ATLAS.

I know you weren't Kelly, wasn't implying that. What I'm wondering about is the question of how valid her claim in ATLAS SHRUGGED really is from a biological standpoint...

I really would like an example of how being a woman in a high powered career isn't compatible with romantic submission. Why wouldn't her attitude with her company be different with her attitude with her lover?

Kelly

"How would any of this have anything to do with my job?"

Not being glib, but that was one of the points of ATLAS SHRUGGED, that these things are all interrelated. And the whole Francisco speech about the type of person one is attracted to, etc. Rand seemed to downplay the biological aspect of this in the book, but seemed to acknowledge it in her own life...

I have had an experience where a girl and I were too evenly matched on femininity for the relationship to be comfortable. There was no one to take the lead, and both of us wanted someone who would. It was very strange. It made me very aware of how constant gender roles are in my relationships. Aside from just sex, there were other examples. It was interesting that when a waitress asked for our order, we both immediately went first and started ordering. It was jarring. It was difficult for us to dance together. This hasn't been the case in all of my same-sex relationships; just the one where we were equally feminine.

Kelly

I guess I am going mostly on introspection (and on the opinions of a few women I think highly of) when I make my point. I have an incredibly strong, animal, instinctive desire to submit (or surrender or whatever you want to call it) to men in bed. I guess I don't understand what kind of submission there could or should be outside of sexual relationships (and I don't mean just sex by that, I also mean interactions that have sex at the base, like dating). How would any of this have anything to do with my job?

Kelly

Good Points, Kelly. Again, I think Rand was not calling for women to throw the race, or sell themselves short. And again, Galt and Roark did not want that from Dominique or Dagny.

"When men of self esteem demand women of the same, there will be no more Atalantas throwing races, young Kelly Elmores not raising their hands in class cause boys don't like that, or Ayn Rands thinking that being "the smartest man I ever knew" was the highest compliment."

Ah, I think you touched on the crux here. The first two examples don't seem to fit with the last example. "The Smartest Man I Ever Knew" implies Rand's man-worship, not just hero-worship, but MAN worship. It doesn't seem logical that women would submit to men unless there was a strong BIOLOGICAL "instinct" to do so. Nathaniel Branden relates Rand's take on this where she talks about the biological differences in relationship to her view. If the gender and "instincts" don't play a part, then every criticism of Rand's essay is true. But if they do...well, that's why I don't find Rand's essay so shocking, and all these myths about women voluntarily "surrendering" seem to imply that there's more to it, something on a more, "animalistic" level?

"What I don't buy about Ayn Rand's article is that a woman in a position of power or dominance must necessarily always be in a position of power or dominance. "

A real-life testimony from Camille Paglia may be of interest here. She identifies as bi-sexual, I think, and talks about how she finds herself in a confused state because she's too in-charge to be with a man, but wants that at the same time, a case of what we're talking about here. Again, is it confused premises or something more biological?

is why being the boss or being better in one realm necessarily would cause a woman not to be the feminine one in a relationship. Here's a personal example. There is a guy I am screwing right now (hope all you prudes just had coronaries!) who took me shooting a while back. He has more experience with guns, though not so so so much more, and at the beginning he was showing me how to do everything. I was kind of scared, and it was kind of fun to be coached through the experience by a masculine figure. By the end, though, I was a better shot. Even though I was a better shot with a gun (which does not correlate to masculine strength), he is still very dominant in bed and by far the more masculine in conversation. Why should one ability of mine make him feel less masculine in relation to me?

What I don't buy about Ayn Rand's article is that a woman in a position of power or dominance must necessarily always be in a position of power or dominance. Why does how much money a woman makes or how many people are her subordinates at work or if she is the ultimate authority in her field instead of a man necessitate a certain kind of sexual power seeking? Why don't men look at women who are very successful, very rich, very knowledgable, very good marksmen, very good runners, etc and say, "Now that is the kind of virtuous, KASS woman I want to hold down and fuck the daylights out of!"? I think it is self-esteem. A man who feels like he is doing his most virtuous, most KASS job of living, wants a woman who does the same, whatever field she is in, however high that takes her. When men of self esteem demand women of the same, there will be no more Atalantas throwing races, young Kelly Elmores not raising their hands in class cause boys don't like that, or Ayn Rands thinking that being "the smartest man I ever knew" was the highest compliment.

Kelly