HA! That's it? Well, now it is crystal clear as to which one of us is wasting his time.

It's no more than I should expect from someone who is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, a prime example of a GOP indoctrinated ZOMBIE.

Maybe you could find someone, less closed-minded than you to check the url below and ask them to explain the implications of it's content.

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=28769

Ha!

Wm

Islam insofar as it is directed by governments, and as a measure enforced from above by any government, is to be done away with.

I thought that my comment regarding Lewis et al, was an answer to your post or at least to the link you repeatedly provided. Obviously not.

Lewis unfortunatly starts from square "two".
Might I suggest that before you strike the "enemy" whom you believe has attacked you, you should be sure that you are not being "led up the garden path" by people who have an agenda which may not be in the best interests of your people.

Please bear with me, humor me.

On 9/11, some group "attacked". They carried out their attack in the midst of an "exercise" wherein planes were hijacked and flown into buildings. STRANGE?
OSB denied that he had anything to do with the attack. The FBI, to this day do NOT include 9/11 on his "most wanted file". STRANGE?

On 9/11, five Israeli nationals were held by police for, as witnesses stated, "celebrating" the destruction, laughing and "high-fiving" each other. Police also found traces of expolsives in their van, these guys were Israeli army intelligence soldiers and were held for some seventy days and then sent back to Israel. When back home, one of them claimed that they were there to "document" the "event". How fucking STRANGE is THAT? (Google, "dancing Israelis" for the details.

Prior to the GOP ataining power, a group of neo-cons produced a paper known as "The Project for a New American Century", one of the requirements needed to "speed-up" the agenda was "a new Pearl Harbour". Guess what? the bastards GOT ONE, didn't they?

Cheney et al then set up "The Office of Special Plans", through which all "intelligence" on OSB and Iraq was fed. Most of this "intelligence" was provided by "a reliable foreign government"..GUESS WHO? The long-standing departments whose job it was to vet such information, were virtually sidelined. STRANGE?

So then we have an attack on Afganistan, this being the same Afganistan whose leaders, the Taliban, had refused to "play ball" with the oil companies who wanted to run a pipeline from the Caspian Sea. The representative of said oil companies stated to a congressional hearing that in order for the pipeline to become a reality, the Taliban had to be removed from power. STRANGE? Nothing to do with the "poor Afganistan peasants" who were forbidden to fly kites

Then we have all the bull-shit about WMD, most of which was fed to us by the Israelis. The Israelis hated and feared Iraq so it had to be "hit', it was, Israel was safer, or so it thinks.
Next we have Iran, they have to be "hit" too, why? because Israel will not feel "safe" until American soldiers die in the process of getting rid of another Israeli enemy. If the US is stupid enough to be led by the nose again, the next stop will be Syria then Lebanon and every other country which the Israelis point to as a threat to their "existence". (If the Israelis want to go kill lots of people, let them do it on their own)

What crosses my mind is, what happens if the Israelis decide that China or Disneyland are a threat to them?

As for,
"Islam insofar as it is directed by governments, and as a measure enforced from above by any government, is to be done away with."

If the above is "true" then, given that, there are several million "Armageddon chasing" christians crazies in the USA, who want to bring about the complete destruction of the World. Surely the Government, with yours and Lewis' support, should slaughter several hundred thousand of them and thereby do the rest of them a favour and , of course, save the World!

I checked out the link you gave me, maybe you would check this one:
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=28769

Kevin

Well, do remember at the time our #1 concern was the Communists. As far as I'm concerned, they were our greatest threat, EVER.

And, according to everyone else on this forum, there was apparently NO way we could've taken out the Communist threat immediately, meaning we DID have to suffer thru all the hell that we did to defeat them- even losing thousands of people, immorally, in Vietnam, and sadly- also arming TERRORISTS to defeat them.

See? When ya can't do it any other way, you have to go with the way that's offered- to quote Hermes Conrad from Futurama "even though it's not a good idea".

First off, If I screwed up regarding the comment you made about Zawahiri, I issue my apologies to that.

However, I DIDN'T say Ahmadinejad is "our greatest threat"- I said "now you know what I think when everyone REFERS TO HIM AS OUR GREATEST THREAT". Ahmadinejad is nothing more than a puppet for Ayatollah Khamenei.

How did I blow the Sympathy card joke? Because you're not clever enough to understand it?

Yeah- I know I'm being a wise-ass. I just enjoy doing that sometimes. But on the same token, if I think yer wrong, I'm gonna call ya on it.

I agree. The USA should never had sold arms to Iraq to fight against the Iranian regime. We should have bombed Iran ourselves instead of giving weapons to Saddam and his tyrannical machine. Nothing came of that whole mess except a few dead Iranians and a better armed Saddam.

Donald Rumsfeld sold arms to Saddam. Dick Cheney was the White House's chief of Staff at the time.

Don't they owe us an apology? Would they have feared what would have come out if Saddam had told all at a future trial?

Kevin, if you can't answer the substance of posts I think at least one of us is wasting our time.

Wm

Islam insofar as it is directed by governments, and as a measure enforced from above by any government, is to be done away with.

The first thing to point out to you is, you don't read too well do you? Or is it more likely to be your comprehension ability?

My post said "Zawahiri is about as "real" as al-Zarqwai was, you remember him, he's the crazed Islamist leader who didn't know how to handle an AK47!" This means that Zarqwai was the guy with the AK47 problem. Have you got it or do you need a more simple explaination?

OSB is dead and the "proof" is in the fact that he has had nothing to say for years, not counting the hoax videos and tapes of course.

I am not frustrated by your stupid claim that Ahmadinejad is "our greatest threat". Just take a look across the sand and you will find our greatest threat and they HAVE nuclear weapons, as confirmed by their Prime Minister recently. (but still no inspections, funny that!)

As for Reid and Pelosi, see the above.

The comment about me buying a card for Saddam's mommy, you have blown it now, 'fess up, you are really just a smart nine year old and that's a photo of the orderly who looks after you at the "hospital" where you live?, tell the truth and shame the devil, as my old granny used to say.
Night night, hope the nightmares stay away for you.

so you know this for a FACT that Osama Bin Laden is definitely dead, correct?

Oh- so sorry..I didn't realize you were crapping out your foam-covered mouth like President Bush sorta does on a daily basis- and Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi DO on a daily basis....

The guy who couldn't handle the AK-47, correct me if I'm wrong, was ZARQAWI, NOT ZAWAHIRI!!!!!!!!!!!

Zawahiri is SORTA the #2 Al-Qaeda guy, so he's a bit important.

I understand your frustration with my mentioning of him, though- now you know what I think every time someone calls Ahmadinejad our "greatest threat". Yeah.....

So..blowing 'em up with dynamite and pigs blood is "childish", you say? BTW...how much WAS that sympathy card you bought at Wal-Mart, today, for Saddam's mommy? I'm just curious...

Why would anyone with an ounce of morality in them turn to people like Lewis and his "friends' Brook, Epstein, Horowitz, Pipes and Ghate, for anything other than how to further the Neocon-Israeli agenda?

"The USA did the Japanese a favour by dropping atomic bombs on them"!!!
"We have the moral right to defend ourselves, even if this requires "MASS CIVILIAN DEATHS".

And you think the "Moslems" are crazed killers.

Please don't present me with the rantings of these "foaming at the mouth" madmen, as evidence of anything other than how the inmates are running the asylum!

Baghdad is not not most of the country. Iraqi Kurdistan is the sucess story of Iraq and the model for the other provinces to follow. Kurds make up 25% of the population of Iraq and the province has little violence and a roaring economy. But Kevin we are trying to talk about an abstract principle here, like individual rights and you give us group think and polls. Becuase some 2000 Sunni think they were better off before the invasion doesn't change the objective evaluation of the situation. After all, they were better off (in the short run) while Saddam oppressed the other minorities and gave them the spoils.

Wm

Islam insofar as it is directed by governments, and as a measure enforced from above by any government, is to be done away with.

You, obviously, have not given much thought to your reply.
The only rights which people have in any country are only those which a government allows them, just like in Iraq.
As for equating Bush et al with Saddam: If you hire out your car to a couple of your friends, in the full knowledge that they intend to use it for their getaway after having robbed a bank and killed the manager, you being aware that they intended to carry guns and they are then caught by the police. How do you think your part in the robbery and murder will be viewed? Do you think you might be charged as an equal participant and (if in Texas) be put to death with them?

King George and his friends have the same blood on their hands and one day justice will catch up to them...I hope.

What I find to be morally repugnant is one of the reasons behind the destruction of Iraq and a possible repeat in Iran, as evidenced by the following:

Israeli general suggests to use Azerbaijan's airbases in strike against Iran

02 January 2007 [01:20] - Today.Az

In a stark statement published on Saturday, Israeli Brigadier General Oded Tira observed, "President Bush lacks the political power to attack Iran. As an American strike in Iran is essential for our existence, we must help him pave the way by lobbying the Democratic Party (which is conducting itself foolishly) and US newspaper editors. We need to do this in order to turn the Iranian issue to a bipartisan one and unrelated to the Iraq failure."

The Israelis got what they wanted in Iraq, now they want young Americans to go and die to protect them from Iran. Who is going to protect the world from the demented Russian immigrants who run Israel?

A note to Wm.
The "link" you provided is a nonsense:
"Have you seen the Other Iraq?

It's spectacular.

It's peaceful.

Welcome to Iraqi Kurdistan"

You offer "KURDISTAN" as evidence? you must be nuts!
TRY THIS: A recent poll in Iraq,
"Do you feel the situation in the country is better today or better before the U.S.-led invasion?"

Better today
5%
Better before
90%
Not sure
5%

Source: Iraq Centre for Research and Strategic Studies / Gulf Research Center
Methodology: Face-to-face interviews with 2,000 Iraqi adults in Baghdad, Anbar and Najaf, conducted in late November 2006. Margin of error is 3.1 per cent.

Sorry to fuck with your delusion! Maybe Mr Perren could let you have some of his medication, the new stronger stuff.

Kevin, you are committing an egregious ethical error by giving moral equivalency to Bush and Saddam. Saddam was a tyrant who ruled by fear, torture, and death. There were no rights whatsoever in Iraq other than what Saddam said you could do. Is Bush a perfect President?-hardly. But singing the old diatribe of equating Bush and other "westerm politicians" with tyrants of torture is dishonest and morally repugnant.

The majority of the Iraqi people would choose the way things were under Saddam over the "death-fest" they now have, compliments of King George and his friends.

This statement is both unsupported by facts and perverted on its face. Brutality is not justified by an individual by pointing at a cheering mob.

Wm

Islam insofar as it is directed by governments, and as a measure enforced from above by any government, is to be done away with.

I will start with Marcus.
Obviously, all that hair is doing it's job -keeping your brain in a state of hibernation.
Saddam, if imprisoned for life, would get around to telling his story eventually. This would have resulted in many "western politicians" joining him in his cell (no chance of that now, eh!)

The Iraqi people had little to do with the lynching of Saddam, this was all down to the United States need to silence him, which the Shia puppets dutifully carried out.

Mr Winefield, in your case I can't blame the hair.
The majority of the Iraqi people would choose the way things were under Saddam over the "death-fest" they now have, compliments of King George and his friends.
Why would the US government need to censor the mainstream media in the USA, the few who control the bulk of it, do it for them, as evidenced by your "take" on things.

KingRandor82....NEWS-FLASH -OSB is DEAD, has been for about two years, and Zawahiri is about as "real" as al-Zarqwai was, you remember him, he's the crazed Islamist leader who didn't know how to handle an AK47!
As for all that childish "tie 'em up, pig's blood and dynamite" crap...Grow the fuck up!

Mr Coates, you must be cackeling with glee, given the video of the lynching being seen by those who delight in "snuff-movies", such as yourself.
You, with others here, bring to mind the descriptions of the toothless old hags who gathered at the Guillotine and squealed with delight as the fallen blade sent flesh and blood into their faces.
BTW, I have an idea for a T-shirt for you - A picture of you with the caption "Dead from the neck up". Whatchathink?

Mr Perren, "NYT continues unabated its grotesque campaign against Western Civilization".
That has got to be one of the most stupid statements I have read in a while - could it be that you need stronger medication?

Someone called "Titan" - Justice will have been served when Bush, Cheney,The Neocons, Blair, Howard and Olmert (with all of their closest advisers) are tried for their illegal invasions of Iraq and Lebanon, then placed in a small, dank cell where they are subjected to non-stop replays of "The Sound of Music", for life.
PS Let's not forget Sharon, he wouldn't want us to miss him out.

Finally, Mr Perigo -("Boo-Hoo Saddamites...")
You should join the childish KingRandor82 in the sand-box where you can play with each other and not bother the grown-ups.

As for me, Saddam was a bastard who deserved to spend the rest of his life in that dank cell with his accomplices and a word-processor.

quell the violence by shooting any journalist who pointed a camera at it. That's one of the ways that dictators 'supress violence': out of sight (of the cameras) out of mind.

The other way is to organised along easily understandable lines thereby allowing people to understand how they may avoid the violence. Basically, you render unto Saddam & sons what they declare to be theirs or die. 

Of course if you were a good looking woman unlucky enough to fall under the gaze of Saddam's psycho eldest child, then you'd be raped and killed out of hand with the full blessing of the Iraqi 'justice' system.

Nevertheless, this is what journalists and the intellectually lazy called 'peace.'

I'm sure if the US government censored the US media like Saddam & Stalin did, then the picture back here in the US would be much more rosey... I for one am glad that they don't!

(sigh) it's like no one friggin' gets it...

While yer at it, why don't you just claim that Saddam or Assad was THE elite threat in the war?

Dude- Ahmadinejad is NOTHING- he's a PUPPET. Ever heard of one of those? The Big Three behind the curtain, pulling his strings, are Ayatollah Khamenei, Ayatollah Khatami, and Ayatollah Al-Sistani...who btw did I mention ALSO has ties, if I'm not mistaken with Muqtada Al Sadr in Iraq?

So, we got these big three who are ACTUALLY causing all the problems, and you just want to beat up the pinata they're dangling over your head, named Ahmadinejad? Seriously- COME ON!

I expect a LOT more intelligence out of you guys than this- REALLY!

I want someone to either aim missiles DIRECTLY for the heads of the Ayatollahs, or have an expert marksmen fire direct shots between the eyes.

And knock 'em off in this order: Al-Sistani( pair him up with Al-Sadr, tie 'em up, and throw a big thing of dynamite coated with pig's blood between them- WATCH THE FUN!), Khatami( pair HIM up with Ahmadinejad, repeat as previous), and then knock off their leader- THE leader of Iran...the man who succeeded Khomenei- Ayatollah Khamenei. Just blow his brains out. No no..even better- FIRST force him to tell us where Bin Laden and Zawahiri are, THEN bring the son of the former Shah of Iran into the room, give him a gun, and let HIM do the honors- something he's been wanting to do, most likely, for almost 30 years now!

Well, it would be worth it, if you bought into the altruistic ideal that it's moral to sacrifice one group (those persecuted by Hussein) for another (the civilians dying in the sectarian conflict in Iraq).

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Marcus,

I can see why you would say that, but I doubt Saddam has many followers at this stage. He'd been out of power long enough that I think few thought he would be back. (Though I did hear someone on talk radio last night say there are people in Iraq who believed only Hussein could quell the violence there. Sheesh. As if that would be worth it!)

Also, I doubt even more strongly if anyone who would want to follow him thought there was any noble cause involved. His was a Stalinist style regime of power hungry, materialist thugs. Those aren't the type to care about noble causes, they're the type that take over after the 'idealists' have assumed power and failed, such as in Communist Russia circa 1930. (And Iraq never even had the first phase.)

...because I think it is the tougher sentence and it would have stopped his followers spreading propaganda that he was martyred for some noble cause.

Perhaps one day in the future, Saddam in prison could have confessed to the evil he had done too.

However, if the Iraqi people need to execute Saddam for the evil he did and security reasons too - I think that would be perfectly valid in this instance.

I view it as shameful and anti-moral NOT to show the video of him dropping thru the trapdoor and dangling dead, neck broken.

It is rare that one gets to see...to actually SEE in a graphic and memorable way...justice done to a mass murderer. Too often the bastards, the Stalins and Maos, got to die peacefully in their sleep.

This video is extremely important ethically.

And as an issue of simple justice.

It should be played over and over by those who and whose families were brutalized by him. Seeing his neck broken will at least bring some measure of a sense that justice is done in the world.

I would hope either ARI or TOC have the brains, foresight, intelligence, and courage to come out with T-shirts with the shot of him dangling at the end of the rope -- no matter how much they are laughed at or it shocks the intelligentsia. Put it on the cover of a magazine like TIA or TNI....and flaunt it in the faces of those who claim it is too gruesome to show the final brutal moments and the execution of a vicious, genocidal, sadistic monster.

I would buy the t-shirt and wear it proudly at refined cultural events and artistic events, to modern art museums right over my black tie and tails. (Actually, that gives me a great idea for a papier mache sculpture that would fit in very nicely at a modern art exhibit...if I had the artistic ability. Feel free to steal this idea.)

Caption underneath the sculpture or t-shirt would be very short and simple:

"...By The Neck Until Dead"

But I do like my dictators well hung.

(Unauthenticated) video of Hussein's execution.

Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler video

Normally, I don't go in for this sort of thing. But if the mainstream media are too treasonous to do their jobs, I regard this as a public service.

As if Phil's point weren't obvious enough, here's black and white evidence that there are some -- most particularly some who should know better -- who still don't get it.

"In a statement issued an hour after the execution, Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, said: 'I welcome the fact that Saddam Hussein has been tried by an Iraqi court for at least some of the appalling crimes he committed against the Iraqi people. He has now been held to account.'

However, she said, 'the British government does not support the use of the death penalty, in Iraq or anywhere else. We advocate an end to the death penalty worldwide, regardless of the individual or the crime. We have made our position very clear to the Iraqi authorities, but we respect their decision as that of a sovereign nation.'British Foreign Ministers Wants It Both Ways

The story linked to is from the New York Times, where of course there is weeping and lamentation at the perfectly appropriate method of dispatching this piece of trash. The title of the story alone clearly reveals that the NYT continues unabated its grotesque campaign against Western Civilization.

"Around the World, Unease and Criticism of Penalty"

I look forward to the day when the NYT meets the same fate as all supporters of dictators -- irrelevance.

But there is one possible bright spot amid such news. The representative puke from Hamas said:

"'Saddam Hussein was a prisoner of war,” Mr. Barhum said. He called the trial 'unjust' and said the timing of the execution, a half-day before the start of the Muslim feast of Eid al-Adha, was insulting. 'The hanging took place on the day of the Eid and this is a message to the Arab street — the Americans have launched threats to all the Arabs,' he said."

On this last point, we can only say "I certainly hope so!" -- at least in so far as those Arabs act like Arabs rather than civilized individuals.

Judging from the photos of Saddam in his undies, he didn't seem to have much of a "package". Anyway, good riddance to a tyrant.

Justice has been served now that this butchering dictator met his well deserved end. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad should be the next to be executed. The USA should send out strategic sniper units to snuff out all of the murderous dictators that are infesting the world with their nihilistic tyranny.

The slimy, disgusting media bastards at the news networks are now talking about whether it would be too gruesome to show shots of his execution.

Never had much problem showing -other- gruesome shots: of other scenes of someone dead or mayhem in war, the piles of skeletons in the overns of the holocaust, showing the south vietnamese police officer with a pistol blowing the brains out of a civilian captive, people chained up in Abu Ghraib, skeletal children in African famines....etc., etc.

...to see, as I flicked down through the news channels, that Fox was least apologetic, CNN seemed to err on the side of neutrality, and the BBC was proclaiming the opposition of the EU to the death penalty.

Not surprising, really. Perhaps those EU leaders feel the cool breeze of their own demise in metaphor if not in actuality.

With Jeff I agree that Hussein was trivial--although not to his many victims--to the broad sweep of history. The question of Iraq needs a new answer to which the execution of the former Butcher of Baghdad is immaterial.

Your pin-up boy got his. Never mind. You can always vote for Hillary in 2008.

Linz

About half an hour ago, one of the more trivial pieces of garbage in the world was hung and tossed into the wastebin of history.

I can see that working, but it would have to be some type of insect other than maggots - AFAIK, they only feed on flesh that is already dead.  I imagine it'd work nicely with some of the parastic worms common in the tropics.

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Buy and wear InfidelGear - 25% of all InfidelGear profit goes to SOLO!

I personally am not inventive enough to imagine a punishment that would fit the crime.

I did have a high school history teacher who once told the class about a Persian torture. The victim is required to consume wine and food, then placed in a boat made of rotting wood, with another placed on top of the first, with a space for the victims head. As he relieves himself, maggots from the wood travel up the alimentary canal, consuming the victim from the inside out.

Probably, letting a few of his victims have at him is about the best you could achieve, but anything you come up with is going to be colossally too little too late.

He should count himself lucky that he's being hanged, not killed with nerve toxins.

---
Buy and wear InfidelGear - 25% of all InfidelGear profit goes to SOLO!

I bet his neck's itching now .

Jim