Jeremy wrote:

I've been hearing a lot of talk that a number of these societies are given over to green-blooded androidism, at the expense of true personal authenticity and real passion. I'm a messy person, and damn proud of it.

As I'm not all into Vulcan pretense, I would probably have no interest in being lured toward these clubs.

That sounds good to me.  The PROPEL(TM) club network aims to help members to satisfy their needs in a flourishing manner via the grounded Objectivist ethics in ways they cannot satisfy elsewhere.  Let me know if you want to form or join a chapter near you.

Luke Setzer
PROPEL(TM) Global Organizer
http://www.PropelObjectivism.com

I've been hearing a lot of talk that a number of these societies are given over to green-blooded androidism, at the expense of true personal authenticity and real passion. I'm a messy person, and damn proud of it.

As I'm not all into Vulcan pretense, I would probably have no interest in being lured toward these clubs.

Thank you both.

Melissa

"Shiny. Let's be bad guys."

ARI = Ayn Rand Institute http://www.aynrand.org

IOS = Institute for Objectivist Studies

TOC = The Objectivist Center http://www.objectivistcenter.org

TAS = The Atlas Society

Note: IOS changed names to TOC in 1999 and changed again to TAS in the last year or so.

Back in 1988, shortly after ARI writer Peter Schwartz condemned all libertarians as nihilists in his article "Libertarianism: The Perversion of Liberty," ARI speaker David Kelley spoke at the Laissez-Faire Supper Club, a libertarian event.  Peter Schwartz and later Leonard Peikoff of ARI condemned Kelley as a sanctioner of evil for granting the audience the benefit of the doubt.

Schwartz's article "On Sanctioning the Sanctioners" and Peikoff's later article "Fact and Value," available at the ARI site, argued that one can grant very little room for honest error among today's cultural leaders and their zealous followers.  Kelley retorted with "A Question of Sanction," later expanded into "Truth and Toleration" and ultimately into The Contested Legacy of Ayn Rand, in which he argued that toleration is needed of error because it can be not only so prevalent, but basically honest.  He even suggested an academic Marxist as an example of someone possibly engaged in honest error and then extended that possibility to major players in the libertarian movement.  He also suggested that Objectivism be treated as an open system rather than a closed one, to which Peikoff replied that Objectivism is, in fact, closed and complete.

Needless to say, much has happened since Kelley left ARI in 1988 and formed IOS.  Whatever weird problems ARI supposedly had with "cultish" tendencies for a few years subsequent to the break basically went by the wayside with the help of their new Executive Director, Yaron Brook.  Meanwhile, IOS-TOC-TAS has had its own upheavals which I will not recount here except for the noticeable recent departure of Bill Perry for his openly stated reasons of finding The Passion of Ayn Rand's Critics a credible critique of the Brandens, whom TAS has welcomed as speakers.

All this high drama puts those of us who just want to enjoy the company of people who appreciate Ayn Rand in a difficult situation.  Most of us are so far removed from these personalities that it really should not matter much who argues with whom.  But getting the word out about clubs requires advertising venues.  The ARI only advertises campus clubs while TAS advertises all Ayn Rand clubs.  But ARI supporters often despise TAS and anyone associated with them.  Hence, I posted the poll to open a conversation about the subject.

TAS 'The Atlas Society' (newest name) = TOC 'The Objectivist Center' (previous name) = IOS 'Institute for Objectivist Studies' (original name). I wish they'd pick a name and stick to it.

For info on the original disagreement and split, lookup David Kelley's 'Truth and Toleration' and Leonard Peikoff's 'Fact and Value'. If you can, find a SOLO thread from about 6 months ago about TOC vs ARI, where Chris Cathcart probably had the best attempt I've ever seen at an unbiased description of the organizations and their current differences.

Why doesn't ARI like TAS/TOC?

And what do all these acronyms stand for? I know 'ARI' means Ayn Rand Institute, but I don't know the others.

Ok, so that was *two* more questions...sorry.

Melissa

"Shiny. Let's be bad guys."

Melissa:

Let me state how I originally posed the question and explain that I had to shorten it to make it fit the allotted space that the software allows:

"Given the hostility of ARI and its supporters to TAS, e.g. 'TAS does not promote Objectivism,' would an Objectivist Club listing itself in TAS Local Clubs directory prove beneficial, neutral or detrimental to that club?"

In other words, does a given club shut itself from a larger potential membership and speaker pool by listing itself in TAS Local Clubs directory despite the disclaimers on TAS's own site about the listing being merely a service and not a sanction?

For many ARI people, seeing anything listed there amounts to a poison brand.  I can interpret that reaction several different ways.  But I wanted to explore the issue further.

Kelly:

Your remark about Fellowship of Reason garnered my attention.  I published a lengthy critique of that organization about a year ago on RoR at

http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Setzer/Learning_Lessons_from_the_Fellowship_of_Reason.shtml

I was just curious why you mentioned them.  EDIT: Oh, wait, you were replying to Aaron--OK.

I saw this question last night, and didn't understand it...but I thought it was just that I was very tired and not thinking very well...

I still don't get it.

Could someone explain what this question means?

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, honestly, I just don't understand.

Melissa

"Shiny. Let's be bad guys."

Fellowship of Reason used to be associated with TOS.

Kelly

Luke-
I received notification on meetup.com about a new 'Propel' group and was surprised, wondering if any real local people were doing it and planning to meet 3/15

Kelly-
What Atlanta TOC/TAS group did you go to once? I'm only aware of the one Lance just formed (the one with 1/3 theists...).

I appreciate the votes and the comments thus far.  This poll relates to a larger project about which you can read more at

http://www.meetup.com/members/64449/

and click the link to any of the Meetups listed there.

If anyone has an interest in starting an Ayn Rand Meetup near you on "my nickel" just drop me a note under the PROPEL(TM) identity via Meetup.

Kelly, I can grant you Assistant Organizer privileges in Atlanta if that interests you.

I would probably assume they would be wimpy and wouldn't have a very good grasp of the philosophy and not be too interested in studying it seriously. I would also be less likely to go there to meet guys. I would assume they were going to be kind of girly and probably less judgemental that they should be (both knocking them out of the running for Mr. Right). I would also assume the group would be hostile to me the second I told them I was a supporter of ARI. I know these views might not be the case for every group and certainly not for every individual, but they have been my general impressions. Would that stop me from going to a new group in Atlanta? No. It hasn't in the past. There are too few of us not to try every group. But I did not end up going twice.

Kelly