Stem cell research blocked in New Zealand

Peter Cresswell's picture
Submitted by Peter Cresswell on Tue, 2007-02-27 20:33

When "not enough is known" about a subject, you might be forgiven for thinking that would be an invitation to know more, and an incentive for further research. Not so in a recent NZ decision, where an important clinical trial has been cancelled because "not enough is known" about the subject being researched.

In a decision that is a blow to science, to medicine, and (potentially) to those suffering with spinal disfunction, a spinal injury study involving the injection of stem cells into the spine which has been blocked, not by scientists, but by a "Ministry of Health ethics committee."

Cynthia Darlington, from the ethics committee, says not enough is known about stem cells for such a trial to be carried out safely. Ms Darlington says the Society might have given people false hope.

It is unclear from the brief report whether the decision is more about safety, or more about a concern that the research "might have given people false hope."

Either way, the decision is appalling.

According to the Spinal Cord Society, the study using stem cells from the nose was intended to replicate a procedure developed by Dr Carlos Lima in Portugal (about which more here, and here). The procedure has been performed on fifty patients, some of whom have reported regaining some sensation and function. But the ethics committee here says "not enough is known about stem cells" for permission to be given to carry out this local trial.

But surely the point of a trial is that not enough is known -- the very point is to learn more, isn't it? To know more? To push back uncertainty? To find a treatment that doesn't presently exist?

Not so, says the ethics committee.

It's unclear from reports whether the audit of Dr Lima's cases has been carried out, or if the trial has been cancelled before this has been done, but the brief report gives no indication of any specific concerns with the safety of Dr Lima's procedures. Rather, it appears to be simply a decision from on high to stop what should have been potentially ground-breaking medical research, and given the reported opposition of a research competitor at the Burwood Spinal Unit in Christchurch, possibly an anti-competitive one.

Writing about the rise of ethics committees such as those making this decision, scientist Stuart Derbyshire calls it "regulation by another name," and its difficult to see it any other way. Rather than studying the actual ethics of a procedure or a study, ethics committees, he says, simply pay hand-wringing obeisance to uncertainty, and all too frequently stand in the way of researchers acquiring real certainty, and in achieving real medical breakthroughs.

Such committees, are often stacked with people unfamiliar with science or medicine, with the result that "too often priority [is given] to the sensitivities and feelings of non-specialists over the expertise of specialists"; they are, he says, "the product of an increasing suspicion regarding the nefarious aims of scientists" -- they represent "the capitulation of scientific authority," with not even the saving grace of efficacy in their stated aims:

Although the aim [of the committees and their procedures] is to prevent harm to subjects and patients, there is no evidence that the application forms, review procedures and consent materials actually do this...

Derbyshire concludes that as a consequence of the rise of regulation by ethics committe, research questions increasingly tend be restricted to conventional, safe and popular areas, with inquiry characterised by deference rather than the challenging of established wisdom, and with what amounts to censorship supplanting academic freedom.

A strong claim, but given the controversy over stem cell research -- with the dissent coming largely from the religious and, locally, from the tangata whenua quarter - one with which I have a lot of sympathy.

Stem cell researchers Thilo Spahl and Thomas Deichmann point out that stem cell research has huge promise for as yet unknown treatments. It "promises the possibility of treatments and cures for a host of different serious medical conditions" -- "it is research that is daily pushing back the boundaries of scientific knowledge." Or it would be, if such research was allowed, "even if the research involves the questioning of contemporary taboos." Such taboos must be challenged, they say, in order to free up scientific research, "which is the very condition upon which scientific discoveries and breakthroughs are made." They conclude:

Developing a morality that is grounded in the attempt to better the human condition is an important task for those of us who wish to live in a society in which we can take full benefit of the advantages which current science offers us.

Hear, hear! As philsopher Craig Biddle said in a similar context, "it's good to play God."

NB: The comments on ethics committees and stem cell research come from an excellent analysis called Science vs. Superstition: The case for a new scientific enlightenment. It can be found in PDF form at the Policy Exchange site.

LINKS: Stem cell trial blocked - Newswire
Stem cell trial blocked by ministry - Radio NZ
Stem cells from the nose - Spinal Cord Society of NZ
Clinical trials - Spinal Cord Society of NZ
Home page - Spinal Cord Society of NZ
Olfactory tissue transplantation for spinal research (Part 1) - Laurance Johnston, Alternative & Innovative Therapies for Physical Disability
Olfactory tissue transplantation for spinal research (Part 2) - Laurance Johnston, Alternative & Innovative Therapies for Physical Disability
Science vs. Superstition: The case for a new scientific enlightenment - Policy Exchange
Of mice and men - Craig Biddle, The Objective Standard

RELATED POSTS ON: Health, Science, Ethics, Politics-NZ


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Who needs STEM CELLS when you have PIG CELLS ?????

KevinOwen's picture

Zealand has given the go-ahead to a controversial clinical trial involving the transplantation of insulin-producing pig cells into humans to treat type-1 diabetes.

By Paul Chapman in Wellington
Last Updated: 10:05PM BST 21 Oct 2008

Although it is hoped that eventually the procedure will mean patients no longer need insulin injections, critics have warned there is a danger that a deadly pig disease could cause a pandemic among humans.

David Cunliffe, the health minister, said: "This is a critical new technology that could well make New Zealand a world leader in both the treatment of diabetes and in the use of xenotransplantation.

"It remains clear to me that any such trial will always carry a very low residual risk, so the key issue has always been whether this risk is sufficiently small and can be successfully managed."

He imposed rigorous conditions, including monitoring by an independent panel of experts.

The approval is the end of a two-year application process by Living Cell Technologies, a company founded by Professor Bob Elliott, who has pioneered research in the treatment of type-1 diabetes.

Islet cells from the pancreas of pigs are coated with a seaweed gel and implanted into the abdomen of patients to manufacture insulin and help control their blood sugar levels.

Professor Elliott began the research more than 12 years ago, but a series of experimental injections of pig cells into six volunteers he carried out in 1996-97 was halted by the government after concern about the disease risk.

The New Zealand Medical Association warned in 2005 that a virus transmitted from pig cells to humans could potentially kill millions of people.

A delighted Professor Elliott said last night that his reaction was one of huge excitement and relief.

"This is a world first," he said.

"It will do something that I think all diabetics have been wanting, which is a self-regulating cell which will produce insulin on demand and stop producing when it's not needed."

The implants, to be marketed as DiabeCellB, have been tested at relatively low dosages on a handful of volunteers in Russia since June this year.

Four of the eight New Zealand volunteers taking part in the trial at Auckland's Middlemore Hospital will receive a stronger dose than any of the Russians has received.

Government ministers in Wellington were deluged with emails from around the world over the weekend urging them to give the green light to the experiment.

The piglets to be used are being kept in quarantine after being bred from a unique herd that lives on the sub-Antarctic Auckland Islands.

The herd has been isolated for 200 years, meaning that the pigs are free from retroviruses.

Mike Smith, president of Diabetes New Zealand, said: "If it's going to be a breakthrough for people with type-1 diabetes, then it can only be good, as long as all the protocols are followed."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

Stem Cell Sauce

KevinOwen's picture

"No point in moving. It doesn't matter but it is an important field that has been back in the news."

I wonder how stem cell sauce would go on fish and chips?

Yes I see you're correct Kasper

gregster's picture

No point in moving. It doesn't matter but it is an important field that has been back in the news.

I find Kev's wisdom needs to be knocked back wherever I see it, to amuse myself too.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/13...

Greg this post is old.

Kasper's picture

Greg this post is old. Nobody has talked about stem cells on here since November last year. Why does it matter?

Good idea. Will move

Kasper's picture

Good idea. Will move discussion over there.

Past Lives

KevinOwen's picture

"Scientology affirms the existence of a Supreme Being, although its dogma is unique and does not include the worship of one."

The above is a personnel thing as Scientology caters for all religions but like it says the dogma is not practiced.

Past Lives
Sometimes I have to take a person earlier than this lifetime to handle past trauma [memories of] that is causing illness in this lifetime. Only when that is handled does the illness abate. That skill and knowledge would be outside of anything you would be aware of as a physical healer and mystical in your eyes but I practise it and have to use it to get the job done.
http://www.realscientology.com/

If you want to continue the discussion, move over to my post. "Psychosomatic Healing" and we will let peter get back to his Stem Cell Research.

You're in the wrong place Kev

HWH's picture

Just Google "witchcraft blog" or "psychic blog" and you'll have your proper audience right away.

I admit that reason is a small and feeble flame, a flickering torch by stumblers carried in the starless night, -- blown and flared by passion's storm, -- and yet, it is the only light. Extinguish that, and nought remains.- - Robert Green Ingersoll

 "Anyone who is

Elijah's picture

 "Anyone who is gratuitously rude or abusive, will, however, be moderated in the “play pen” for children, after reasonable warning."

Ha ha...often is the abuse-ee rather than abuser who ends up getting carpeted.

Ahhhh....the joys of life! Sticking out tongue

Elitism, forever!

my comments are objective but not Objectivist.

KevinOwen's picture

Gregster wrote. "my comments are objective but not Objectivist."

Thank god for that. Lay off the personal attacks and attack the message. I didn't hi-jack it, Kasper did. I responded to his post. Get your facts straight!!

It might pay to re-read the site guidelines. They do apply to NON-OBJECTIVISTS AS WELL.

"Anyone who is gratuitously rude or abusive, will, however, be moderated in the “play pen” for children, after reasonable warning."

FAQ's on your provided link:

Kasper's picture

Titled: What is Scientology.
Scientology comprises a body of knowledge which extends from certain fundamental truths. Prime among these are:
1) Man is an immortal spiritual being. (mystical)
2) His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime (mystical)
3) His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized.
Titled: Does Scientology have a concept of God?
"Most definitely. Scientology affirms the existence of a Supreme Being, although its dogma is unique and does not include the worship of one. Scientology believes that only through total spiritual enlightenment can one then truly discover and understand the Supreme Being"
Titled: Does Scientology believe in reincarnation.
“to be born again into the flesh or into another body.” Scientology ascribes to this latter, original definition of reincarnation"
etc etc etc

I repeat

gregster's picture

my comments are objective but not Objectivist. I've not described myself as such. You are a fool. And you've caused the thread-hijack. Poison must be identified in the strongest terms.

Scientology Bashers alive and well.

KevinOwen's picture

Gregster Wrote
"Award for Largest Fuck wit on this Site"

I take it this is acceptable behaviour for an objectivist????

Scientology Bashes
They all seem to have one thing in common. That is they know nothing of the subject and what they think they know is not from any study of it as there attacks on it are all short, sweet and stupid.

Rands Philosophy

KevinOwen's picture

I haven't read any of Rands work but got a taste of it listening to Lindsay Perigo's talk back show for a fair while.[Good Stuff]. You could say it educated me on governments and moved my ideas toward Libertarian Philosophy.

" Delete all superstition and you have Scientology"
No you don't. One of the founding beliefs in Scientology is the belief in the supernatural."

No gods in Scientology mate. Sorry. If you want that product you have to go to a christian church etc.
People of all religions use Scientology to improve their lives and some may believe in God etc but its not part of Scientology.

"I took a Landmark Education Forum seminar 2 years ago which had similar theories around dianetics."

They might have some similarities but I would appreciate it if you didn't compare them as they are vastly different in reality. Cheers.

" Delete all superstition

Kasper's picture

" Delete all superstition and you have Scientology"
No you don't. One of the founding beliefs in Scientology is the belief in the supernatural.

I took a Landmark Education Forum seminar 2 years ago which had similar theories around dianetics. One of which is working out mental strategies to get people to disengage their past from having any power over their present. i.e. to leave the past in the past.

Having read some of the information on the links provided, I can see how dianetics would help a lot of people (momentarily).
The existentialist part of dianetics is that it sees the ultimate truth being mans internal realm and outside existence as immaterial or a reflection of what one perceives or believes.

Before you take the above on.
Questions for you to answer please.
How much of Rand have you read? What did you read? How much have you bought into Rands philosophy?
Thanks

Is Scientology this cult

Elijah's picture

Is Scientology this cult witchcraft business involving John Travolta? Shocked

Hmmmmmm....all sounds a bit odd and I think some people should read a bit more about this Hubbard chap (no, not the nondescript, already long forgotten Mayor of Auckland)...and his bizarre lifestyle and opinions. 

Elitism, forever!

Award for Largest Fuckwit on this Site

gregster's picture

Surely in my opinion you dear Kev deserve this honour. Congratulations. Jawdropping!

"there (sic) attacks on it (Scientology) are all short, sweet and stupid."

You dishonest, brainwashed, uneducated, mystic little prick.

Have you not heard of all the lawsuits, protests, bans on your pseudo-religion?

Yes you have, but you are a lying cunt. And none here is fooled. You're played with. Kill yourself, end it.

The truths are also 'faith' (mystical) based aren't they?

KevinOwen's picture

"Lets agree on something. Scientology is not accountable in its entirety to reason is it? The truths are also 'faith' (mystical) based aren't they?"

If you find some let me know.
Faith is no good to me when I'm helping someone with his arthritis or stomach ulcers. Cheers.

Religion without Science is Blind
Science Without Religion is Lame
Investigate Religion, With Science, DELETE ALL SUPERSTITION,
and you have Dianetics and Scientology.

Excellent Kevin thanks for

Kasper's picture

Excellent Kevin thanks for the links. Read some answers to the first one.
Lets agree on something. Scientology is not accountable in its entirety to reason is it? The truths are also 'faith' (mystical) based aren't they?

"you don't understand Scientology".

KevinOwen's picture

Maybe I do? If you go to the site below it will answer allot of your questions and it will save me answering the simple stuff. I don't mind expanding on true information.

ANSWERS TO COMMON QUESTIONS
http://www.scientology.org/rel...

Check out what the word Thetan means on the site page below, otherwise you will get side tracked into all that weird stuff [zenu] on Wikipedia
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n...

"Therefore, a therapy which asks man to adapt his subjective environment to the objective environment,"

When a person receives auditing [looks into his mind] you could say he cleans or defrags the mind with the help of the Auditor [Scientology Counsellor]. Once that's done, his/her view of reality [objective] is not now altered by past trauma, injury etc and so his objective view of reality improves.

The drugs tend to suppress the symptoms of past trauma, injury etc and sometimes a person can get an improvement in their condition with the side effects to go with it.

I hope the above helps.

The Scientology Handbook also has allot of information in it
online
The Scientology Handbook
http://www.scientologyhandbook...

The Discovery Of Dianetics
http://www.rehabilitatenz.co.n...
One of the basic discoveries of Dianetics was that unconsciousness and all the pain attendant upon it was stored in a part of the mind and that this pain and unconsciousness accumulated until it caused the organism to begin to die

A basic understanding from

Kasper's picture

A basic understanding from Wikepedia is what I have. I think you can get a decent understanding about Rand from there too, without having to read the whole philosophy.

With any attack or dismissal of ideas that you put forward, you tend to meet them with a stance that says: "you don't understand Scientology". This may be so, however, should not stop you arguing your case in point. You are not inherently 'correct' because somebody else does not completely understand Scientology. Smiling
I would appreciate a defence of your assertions.
Please address the contradiction which I picked up on. The one between Scientology's apparent view on metaphysics vs its epistemology. (If you think there isn't one then why?)
Also the following:
"Therefore, a therapy which asks man to adapt his subjective environment to the objective environment, and not the other way around, is like psychiatry enslaving and is unworkable simply because it is not true.[54]" (Truth being mans internal realm vs his external realm?)
I think it would be very dangerous to have psychiatry working the other way round don't you? In effect causing man to evaluate reality according to his subjective internal environment i.e his emotions.

Scientology Bashers

KevinOwen's picture

"Kevin have you done a post on Scientology which argues its internal validity? Having read the wikipedia on Dianetics and Scientology it seems to be a mixture of "truths" and outlandish beliefs."

Hi Kasper.
No, I haven't. That would really get the Scientology Bashers going.
I would be confused to if I took what is on Wikipedia as being true. It does give an indication of your knowledge on the subject though? Cheers.

Scientology Bashers
They all seem to have one thing in commom. That is they know nothing of the subject and what they think they know is not from any study of it as there attacks on it are all short, sweet and stupid.

Kev Is that Right??

gregster's picture

Gee

Kevin have you done a post

Kasper's picture

Kevin have you done a post on Scientology which argues its internal validity? Having read the wikipedia on Dianetics and Scientology it seems to be a mixture of "truths" and outlandish beliefs.
On the one hand Scientology appears to be the belief that knowledge is useful and believes in its currency. What I get from that is that Scientology is a form of epistemology. Fine.
However, on the other hand the epistemology seems to contradict its metaphysics. Take the following:
The exact nature of all of existence is said to be stated in Hubbard's Scientology and Dianetics Axioms.

Other beliefs of Scientology are:[37]

* A person is an immortal spiritual being (termed a thetan) who possesses a mind and a body.
* The thetan has lived through many past lives and will continue to live beyond the death of the body.
* Through the Scientology process of "auditing," people can free themselves of traumatic incidents, ethical transgressions and bad decisions which are said to collectively restrict the person from reaching the state of "Clear" and "Operating Thetan." Each state is said to represent the recovery of native spiritual abilities and to confer mental and physical benefits.
* A person is basically good, but becomes "aberrated" by moments of pain and unconsciousness.
* Psychiatry and psychology are destructive and abusive practices.[38]

Another thing that bother me is the following idea:
"Therefore, a therapy which asks man to adapt his subjective environment to the objective environment, and not the other way around, is like psychiatry enslaving and is unworkable simply because it is not true.[54]"
I think it would be very dangerous to have psychiatry working the other way round don't you? In effect causing man to evaluate reality according to his subjective internal environment i.e his emotions.

Stem Cell Treatment in China

KevinOwen's picture

Did anyone see the show on 60 minutes [I think] on the couple under going stem cell treatment for their heart problems. [only delivered in china]

The doc said he knew that the treatment worked but he didn't know how it worked. Thats science for you. The older chap didn't come through [died on the table] but the other lady was hopeful of some improvement over the next 6 months.??

50 grand a treatment.

I look forward to your response

KevinOwen's picture

"I'm ex-exclusive brethren, so my inclination is to have no inclination at all to ply through another nonsense faith,"

I understand.

L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer. He used the millions he made from his fiction writing to fund his research into the soul [thought] and the mind [memory].

"Burdened by researching during the prewar period’s utter lack of research grants and funds, I had to solve the economics of it all. I did so mainly by writing and movies and did very well at it, at least enough to finance what else I was doing"
http://www.lronhubbard.org/eng...

I look forward to your response. Make sure you have good facts and use good reason. I don't mind a bit of hummour as well but if you give it be prepared to take it.

I don't mind anyone doing

Mark Hubbard's picture

I don't mind anyone doing any research but as long as they don't use my taxpayer dollars to do it.

First thing we agree on Kevin.

As for your other points, I shall return to them over the week, as I have to work today, but, L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer, and I seem to remember reading somewhere that his central contention was the easiest way to make money was to invent a religion. Doesn't fill me with confidence, although I have to say the sum total of my knowledge of Scientology is Tom Cruise jumping up and down on a couch.

I know, a cynical rejoinder. I'll come back to it ...

Wait a minute, quick Google.

Dianetics is a set of ideas and practices regarding the relationship between the spirit, mind and body that were developed by author L. Ron Hubbard. According to Hubbard's claims, mental and psychosomatic physical problems are caused by traumatic recordings called engrams that are stored in the reactive mind. The goal of Dianetics is to become rid (or "cleared") of this portion of one's mind. Once at this state of "Clear," according to Hubbard, an individual becomes able to function at his or her full potential.

Oh Christ, I'm going to have to wade through primal screaming or some damned thing. As I've said on another thread, I'm ex-exclusive brethren, so my inclination is to have no inclination at all to ply through another nonsense faith, because in breakdown they all are. By the way, those Exclusives are a funny bunch, whisky alcoholics most of them (just to put another spin on my comment a post ago).

So, I will look into this, it is a matter of honour now, unless some other kind Soloist wants to spare me the agony, please ... Later.

spiritual and mental stress

KevinOwen's picture

"how can you heal my spiritual and mental stress any better than a single malt whisky?"

Mark.There are two barriers to learning anything new one has to overcome before he/she can learn anything. They are CAN'T LOOK AND I ALREADY KNOW IT ALL.

Your statement does seem to indicate that you do already know everything there is to know about the subject[spiritual and mental stress]. It also indicates to me being trained in the field that your understanding of it is Zero ["better than a single malt whisky?"].

"Experts estimate that psychosomatic illnesses account for up to 70 percent of man’s ills, including being too fat or too thin, migraines, allergies and other afflictions not strictly caused by physical reasons."

"One of the basic discoveries of Dianetics was that unconsciousness and all the pain attendant upon it was stored in a part of the mind and that this pain and unconsciousness accumulated until it caused the organism to begin to die
Another discovery of Dianetics was that this pain could be nullified or erased with a return to full consciousness and a rehabilitation toward survival."

"Stem cells "... offer much

KevinOwen's picture

"Stem cells "... offer much hope for medical advancement because of their ability to grow into almost any kind of cell."

It does offer hope. [placebo effect 20-40% success rate]
I don't mind anyone doing any research but as long as they don't use my taxpayer dollars to do it. If private enterprise wants to fund it. Great. Maybe you might put some of your money into it?? .

A lady from Rotorua with Motor Neuron Disease was offered hope [Stem Cell Treatment] a short while ago. She traveled to China to have her scull opened up and some mush squirted into her brain According to newspaper reports she did feel a bit better afterwards. She was out of pocket $30,000 but that probabably wouldn't worry her now as she is deceased.

"I admit that reason is a small and feeble flame, a flickering torch by stumblers carried in the starless night, -- blown and flared by passion's storm, -- and yet, it is the only light. Extinguish that, and nought remains.- - Robert Green Ingersoll"

but...ummmmm...what exactly is Scientology?

KevinOwen's picture

"All I know it is some sort of John Travolta/Tom Cruise fan club, which is viewed with great suspicion..."

At least your honest about what you do know.
It's probably more than those commenting about it.

If I was to comment about Ayan Rand's philiosophy, how long would it take Lindsay Perigo to know I was talking a load of rubbish. About the same time it takes me to know when someone is talking rubbish about Dianetics and Scientology.

It can and does make one look like a fool though, when he/she attempts to be a smart ass and attack the person personally. I leave it up to the readers to isolate the fools. Cheers

Speaking of Flouncing Linz

HWH's picture

Compared to JoeM, at least old Kenny put the "F" back into flouncing.

I admit that reason is a small and feeble flame, a flickering torch by stumblers carried in the starless night, -- blown and flared by passion's storm, -- and yet, it is the only light. Extinguish that, and nought remains.- - Robert Green Ingersoll

Something to do with Xenu

Lance's picture

Something to do with Xenu (some alien chap), volcanoes, and spaceships, almost sounds like a bad science fiction novel.

Elijah

Lance's picture

There's a very good South Park episode which explains it better than I could... Eye

I

Elijah Lineberry's picture

am not particularly up to snuff with this soothsaying/witchcraft lark...but...ummmmm...what exactly is Scientology?

All I know it is some sort of John Travolta/Tom Cruise fan club, which is viewed with great suspicion...

KevinOwen is a scientologist?

Emma Kathryn's picture

Oh, my bad. Shouldn't have bothered replying.

Kevin

Mark Hubbard's picture

You only need to do a Google to see the potential of stem cell research. For example, from the very first page when I Google stem cell research:

Stem cells "... offer much hope for medical advancement because of their ability to grow into almost any kind of cell. For instance, neural cells in the brain and spinal cord that have been damaged can be replaced by stem cells. In the treatment of cancer, cells destroyed by radiation or chemotherapy can be replaced with new healthy stem cells that adapt to the affected area, whether it be part of the brain, heart, liver, lungs, or wherever. Dead cells of almost any kind, no matter the type of injury or disease, can be replaced with new healthy cells thanks to the amazing flexibility of stem cells. As a result, billions of dollars are being poured into this new field."

Now, quid pro quo, how can you heal my spiritual and mental stress any better than a single malt whisky?

Hahaha, Hilton!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Come on...off to your sandbox now and dont forget to take your lithium smoothie now.

Thanks for the belly-laugh.

Some years ago we had another Scientology nutter on the board. It may indeed have been the same one. Somebody else popped the question: Are any other religious groups represented on SOLO? I made the quip that as far as I knew the only other one was the ARI. I didn't put a smiley face after it, thinking it wasn't necessary. Boy was there some flouncing over that! Smiling

Stem Sell Research

KevinOwen's picture

"the field that offers more potential benefits to all of our lives than any other field I can think of."

Sorry about going off track. Maybe you could enlighten me on some of these potential benefits to all our lives. It sounds like a lot of medical spin without any substance. We hear about these breakthroughs every week but none of them seem to eventuate. I point out that the medical model still can't cure the common cold.
I look forwarded to your educated response

I'm not a psychotherapist but do treat spiritual [thought] and mental [Memory] stress which when done improves a persons health mentally and physically. The improvements are measured on graph which is more than any psychiatrist or psychologist can do.

Kevin, you've completely

Mark Hubbard's picture

Kevin, you've completely dropped context mate. Trying to argue against the benefits of stem cell research from the point of view of psychotherapy is ludicrous. What on earth are you doing?

Stem cell research is quite possibly 'the' most exciting area of medical research currently, the field that offers more potential benefits to all of our lives than any other field I can think of. And I'm as mad as hell at the luddite Christians who are trying to stop it (and now I have to throw into the mix luddite psychotherapists?)

Furthermore, in terms of just straight drop dead compelling, stem cell research is right up there with nano technology and with findings in quantum physics, vis a vis man's ability to work with 'time' itself, apparently, (albeit, this latter field runs the extreme risk of being muddied by the new agers - and now god help us if psychotherapists get hold of it).

 

Where I come from they look like this.

KevinOwen's picture

I can see the resemblence. Was he a family member?

Rattle them bones

HWH's picture

Ah Mr Owen...so you're a witchdoctor. Where I come from they look like this.
sangoma
Surprised you're on the net.

Come on...off to your sandbox now and dont forget to take your lithium smoothie now.

 

I admit that reason is a small and feeble flame, a flickering torch by stumblers carried in the starless night, -- blown and flared by passion's storm, -- and yet, it is the only light. Extinguish that, and nought remains.- - Robert Green Ingersoll

Not interested

Peter Cresswell's picture

"but if your [sic] interested..."

No, I'm not interested.

I would be willing to bet good money

KevinOwen's picture

and stem cell research has already been proven to have the ability to solve many previously untreatable ailments.

Such as???

When I say psychotherapy I'm not talking about the methods used by psychiatrists, psychologists and psychotherapists.
I would agree with you that using the above psychotherapies would probably cause more harm than good.

The methods of psychotherapy I use are outside of your training field, so you wouldn't be aware that they could help but if your interested I wouldn't mind showing you as it would broaden your field of training etc.

I agree that the ethics committee don't always get it right
My reasons for agreeing with them probably wouldn't be based on the same ones they made.

The quote below MAYBE of interest to you

Injury and illness are predisposed (made more likely to occur) by the spiritual state of the person. They are precipitated (brought on) by the being himself as a manifestation of his current spiritual condition. And they are prolonged (extended in time beyond normal limits) by any failure to fully handle the spiritual factors associated with them.

What I do want heal a broken spine but can handle the stress related to all illness and injury therefore improving healing time and the persons ability to heal himself. Cheers

KevinOwen

Emma Kathryn's picture

And how exactly does that apply to people with spinal problems? I would be willing to bet good money on the fact that most of these patients would be aided very little by psychotherapy - it's definately not a replacement for real physical symptoms, and stem cell research has already been proven to have the ability to solve many previously untreatable ailments. It's true there are many apparent "miracle drugs" out there, that really don't work, or don't work nearly as well as they say they do, but that's why these trials exist - to separate the helpful, from the unhelpful, from the dangerous.

And regarding this decision from the "ethics committee" (a detestible establishment, to say the least) - this is a true slap in the face for medical research.

KevinOwen

KevinOwen's picture

I'm glad they blocked it, not because of any religious reason, but for the fact that it would be a waist of time and taxpayers funds. Squirting some tomato sauce, willy nilly into someones brain is as bad as giving him/her some electric shock treatment and hoping something might change or impove.

The medical field has been researching different treatments for illnesses for 50 years but still can't even cure the common cold. You here about new research every week that may come about in 5 years. They are experts at treating symptoms though.

What is outside their knowledge and training is the mechanics of psychosomatic illness. I'll show you if your interested.

http://www.solopassion.com/use...

Spiritual and Mental Stress, cause a large proportion of physical and mental illnesses, experienced by individuals.

These physical symptoms are then diagnosed by the Medical Doctor and Psychiatrists etc and treated with physical treatments. [Medication, operations, chemotherapy etc]

As the medical model mainly deals with the physical symptoms and has virtually no cures for these illnesses, and never will, they become acute or chronic and need long-term treatment.

When the Spiritual and Mental aspects of the illness or injury are handled with different forms of Psychotherapy, the symptoms improve and in many cases cease to exist.

All illness should be handled with Spiritual and Mental Therapies [psychotherapy] if possible, as medication or drugs are not needed to get improvement and it has no side effects. The improvement is rapid, as after therapy the person is aware that his/her condition has improved.

Many operations are not needed when the above psychotherapies are used on the physical or mental condition or problem. Work stress can be lessened quickly without medications. All injuries, healing of them can be sped up. Many other problems can be improved by increasing a persons abilities and education to cope with life

Of course.

Peter Cresswell's picture

Ah yes. Doesn't that happen so often: the perfect solutin is staring you in the face all the time. Smiling

Cheers, Peter Cresswell

Appalling YES! - Easy Solution

Sandi's picture

The ethic's committee need to be swapped with the people from the parole board.

Problem solved.

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