The Greenhouse Effect Global Warming Climate Change

Sorry, couldn't resist. I suppose it was inevitable...

While I'm obviously an advocate of private roading, let's not let the big picture confuse the specifics of this case: someone is responsible for the collapse, be it the designer, the builder, the maintenance teams, etc.

I say that because there are many bridges in the US that are far older and under greater loads than that bridge. All of NYC's bridges are, the Golden Gate, the Mackinac, and on and on.

Regardless of the socialistic failings of public roading, someone should swing.

35W does not connect Minneapolis and St. Paul! Media sources have been repeating this error nonstop since the disaster. 35W does not go anywhere near St. Paul; it connects Minneapolis to the northern suburbs.

Daniel, I appreciate your other comments about Minnesota and Hennepin County. Unless you manage to slip into an alternative timeline between now and the start of the semester, though, be prepared to encounter the same (or worse) ideas at college.

In 2001, the civil engineering department of the University of Minnesota provided Mn/DOT with a report[15] that indicated weakness at the joints of the steel that held the concrete deck above the river, due to unanticipated out of plane distortion of the steel girders. The report also noted a concern about lack of redundancy in the main truss system, which meant the bridge had a greater risk of collapse in the event of any single structural failure. The report concluded, however, that the bridge should not have any problems with fatigue cracking in the foreseeable future. From Wikipedia

Wm

I can say that the damned government's reaction to this whole thing has been absolutely disgraceful. Senator Amy Klobuchar (D) has repeatedly suggested that the addition of more federal government bureaucracy would solve the issue, and so far nobody has stepped forward to gainsay her.

The damage that the neglect of the 35W bridge will cause over the next several years is incalculable. That highway was the main bridge between Minneapolis and St. Paul, and the few smaller roads that connect the two cities simply do not have the capacity to carry the diverted traffic. Given the number of people who reside in one city and work in the other, a number of small businesses will undoubtedly have to close down due to employees no longer being able to make the commute. And the Minnesota Twins baseball franchise is going to have a much harder time filling seats at the Metrodome with half of its fans on the other side of the river with a few small, perpetually glutted bridges as the only means of getting across. I certainly wouldn't want to spend an extra hour in the car on top of the 20 minutes it used to take me to get there.

The whole State government here is bloated beyond reason. The state income tax is one of the highest in the country. Restaurants in Hennepin County, the county that encompasses the city of Minneapolis and its suburbs, are all non-smoking by county fiat. And the public school systems, while perpetually clamoring for more money, seem determined to spend it on everything except improving the quality of the education they offer.

Good Galt, am I ever glad to be going away for college.

Hey Callum, I hadn't intended to hijack this from transport financing to my own speculative thoughts on bridge engineering!

RE: Financing, the U.S. federal government pays roughly 80% of costs for Interstate highway projects. However, those projects are almost always initiated by the states and each project must be individually reviewed and approved by the federal government for that 80% to kick in. Minnesota did not program the I-35W bridge for complete replacement until the 2012-2014 budget cycle.

Whatever fault in not planning for earlier replacement therefore lies with the State of Minnesota; this means all the anti-Bush sentiment in other areas of the blogging community is completely misplaced: it's a state-level decision. (Or rather would have been, because now Congress has approved an emergency $250 million appropriation to replace the bridge.)

What is interesting is Minnesota's priorities. While traffic congestion increases and major transport projects are pushed further into the future, there was enough political support in Minneapolis' Hennepin County to subsidize a new stadium for the Minnesota Twins baseball team to the tune of $392 million.

I must have driven across that bridge a thousand times during the seven years I lived in Minneapolis. Peter's right: the astounding thing given the funding/ownership of most transportation systems is that more bridges don't collapse!

The fact the 35W bridge was rated as "structurally deficient" is a non-starter; hundreds of bridges share that rating yet remain standing until they're replaced. (The Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported the bridge was scheduled to be demolished and replaced during the 2012-2014 funding cycle.)

So why is the 35W bridge not still standing? My thoughts:

1. The supports were anchored in an area subject to heavy silt buildup that also required regular dredging due to the river traffic. I personally remember reading/hearing about dredging operations smacking up against those bridge supports and causing great concern among transportation officials. (Sorry, no citation, just my recollection.)

2. Either due to dredging operations (as I remember it) OR due to a barge actually hitting one of the bridge supports (as one of my pals remembers it), that bridge was closed for an entire weekend one summer while it was checked for damage. This would have been in the late 1990's.

3. The bridge had a de-icing system that sprayed chemicals over the roadway in the winter. Possible corrosive effect on the steel as those chemicals dribbled down? My speculation only.

4. Re-paving project had shifted all traffic to the center four lanes while the outside four lanes were filled with construction equipment and materials. New York Times article

In Minnesota, they'll go after the contractors. Regardless of the volumes of gov't regulations that were undoubtedly followed down to the smallest detail, somebody in the private sector will end up with the blame. After all: contractors are interested in profit, while employees of the underfunded Department of Transportation struggle to keep commuters safe... -- I can see the op/ed pieces already.

Spot on guys.

Do you think that anybody in the public service will be end up being held accountable for this? Er, not on your life.

So, who's gonna write the PR?

The disaster brought to mind the point of Andrew Galambos' observation about traffic jams: A traffic jam is a collision between free enterprise and socialism. Capitalism produces automobiles faster than socialism can build roads and road capacity.

Bridge collapses on the Yangtze. Yep. Bridge collapses on the Volga. Okie-dokie. Bridge collapses on the Mississippi. All bridge collapses caused by socialism.

Given that most roading structures are produced and maintained not by capitalism but by socialism, what's astounding is not that some fall down, but that so many are still standing.

I know most don't feel like leaping to the barricades to defend private roads, but tragedies like this make it all the more obvious why it's necessary.

Cheers, Peter Cresswell

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This is the sort of story that gives me the shits! Bridge collapses on the Yangtze. Yep. Bridge collapses on the Volga. Okie-dokie. Bridge collapses on the Mississippi??? What the fuck!!!

This is not supposed to happen in the West! I now drive with a certain trepidation over our own Harbour Bridge built 8 years earlier than the one in Minneapolis. I’m avoiding altogether the four extra lanes on the dodgy "Nippon Clip-ons" that were fixed to the existing structure with, what, duct tape and chewing gum?

This event has shaken the very foundations of civilization! PC! Reassure me!

Roads are primarily a state issue, and the state of "Minnesota already has the sixth-highest per-capita tax burden in America, and came into this year's legislative session with a surplus of better than $2 billion.". The people in that state recently had a referendum to improve road conditions, but the bill was worded in such a way that many feared all of the money would be used towards the environ-mental 'light rail' and not the roads themselves, so the referendum failed.

I hate to see tragedies like this used for political purposes. You go to dailykos and you'll see them blame the Bush administration for spending money on Iraqi infrastructure but not here at home. Lets be a bit above those kooks, please.

Wm