Bloody brilliant!

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That is excellent news Kasper, congratulations.

A student is entitled to expect to be marked on the quality of his work, not on whether his marker agrees with him.

This is encouraging news, to say the least.

ASD pops up everwhere in countless guises. It's in anything that tells you logical truths are different from observable ones, that proven truths can't be observed and observable ones can't be proved. Galt knows how such crap came to be, but you can observe its beginnings in Parmenides and Heraclitus. It's venerable if nothing else.

Well I have had the chat with the lecturer. No spanking took place sorry Linz. She was enthusiastic and excited to see a student wanting to challenge the system. She argued that as a health professional one wants to see people get better. “It is ones self interest to try address health inequalities amongst clients and that this does not have to be done through altruistic or ‘Robin Hood’ like methods” (paraphrasing Rosemary). She gave me full permission to put forth a capitalistic argument for my upcoming assignment (this delighted me). The conversation was positive and from a lecturing point of view she was thrilled to have someone thinking differently. Objectivist ethics versus Utilitarianism and Deontology did not rank superior, as arbitrary theories lay the same weight as concrete theories grounded in reality. I left without winning or loosing but having had a good conversation. I will need to study the analytic-synthetic dichotomy to be able to argue that a particular kind of thinking (logic) is superior to other arbitrary kinds of thinking such as emotional.
kkulak

Good on you for making a stand and I wish you the best with your studies.

I well remember being in your position 16 years ago as a medical student trying to get through the system. We had a number of subjects each year. The one I despised was Behavioural Science. It was just a lot of politically correct bullshit dressed up as psychology. I particularly remember the weekend we had to spend on a Marae. Lots of flea bitten dogs, unmowed lawn and rusting cars around the place. We had to listen how evil the White Man was and all how they(Moddies) should get their land back.

Multiple speakers and it went on for hours. Brainwashing 101. Christian Scientologists eat your heart out.

And the food was terrible! Not enough and gristly meat.
I was sickened by it all. Sickened by the brainwashing. Sickened by how many/most of my classmates lapped it up and started to asked for forgiveness for the sins of their forefathers. Sickened by a lack of good tucker and from sleeping on a crappy mattress on a crappy wooden floor.

With my 2 best mates I bugged out Sunday 0300 hours in my trusty Mark One Ford Escort. Thank God for the burgers of the White Lady of Queen street! It was the only thing open that served food. Ate burgers and drank Heineken. Two great imports of Western civilization!

In a very real sense I never went back.

I don't think I have anything to add to that.

Good lord; things sound absolutely awful in NZ, but I'm not sure the situation is global. Here are things as I see them. Corrections in facts or different interpretations are, as always, welcome.

The American colleges and universities (or departments therein) that are still worth something (i.e. that haven't become glorified trade schools) begin where secondary schools leave off. In general, the first half of a baccalaureate degree consists of more advanced grounding in the liberal arts and the second half consists of intense study in a single subject area. Receipt of a B.A. or B.S. is (wrongly) considered necessary for many entry-level jobs that have potential for real advancement.

In reality, most of those jobs require a year or two of professional school at the most. Managerial positions are best filled by intelligent people who have worked in the company long enough to have seen what works and what doesn't. Usually only high-level executive positions require more thorough knowledge, and much of that comes from years spent closely observing the market and other businesses.

The truth is that at least two-thirds of those currently enrolled in American universities do not belong there. They are wasting their time, their money, and the time of their professors. These students would be much better served by a small amount of professional school followed by immediate entry into the workforce.

Those who belong at a university or a four-year college are those whose future lies in education or in highly advanced fields such as medicine or law. Those who wish to pursue teaching should have a degree in the subject that they wish to teach (Baccalaureate for most primary and secondary schools, Master's for the most rigorous secondary schools, and Doctorate for univerity) and perhaps one or two courses in the skill of teaching. For advanced professional fields, the knowledge gained in an undergrad curriculum is essential. I do not know of any well-regarded law schools that would admit a student who did not have a strong background in logic and written argumentation. And any doctor with a degree from a school such as Harvard, Johns Hopkins or the University of Chicago has gone through nearly a decade of hellishly difficult schooling. Barring sudden outbreaks of insanity or severe illness on their part, the competence of such doctors is practically unassailable.

Artists are no different from other skill-dependent professionals in this regard, although their sources of useful education are more limited. Ideally, a budding artist should spend most of his time learning from someone who can help him improve his technique (that is, help him make the ideas and emotions he wishes to present more apparent). Most of the time, this is done through private instruction or intimate studio instruction (usually both). Courses in art history or aesthetic theory may be of interest, or even useful to some, but they are hardly necessary for someone who wishes to pursue a career as an artist.

To conclude, let me present an example of a school that does precisely what it is supposed to do. Olin College of Engineering is just that: a four-year college whose sole focus is the training of engineers. The curriculum is designed around that goal and does not include study in the humanities or in many aspects of biology. The school's admissions standards are as high as those of MIT and CalTech. Its purpose is explicit and the quality of its training is first-rate. The establishment of professional schools on such a model would be a huge step toward the improvement of education both in the U.S. and worldwide.

Well as someone with three University degrees (Moron to the third power) I should probably chuck my two bits worth in.

One of the first things a lecturer in Computer Studies told us upon entering his lecture room is that a degree (from a reputable training establishment) is relevant for about 3 years unless the person makes the effort and stays current with the literature etc. What he left out was the fact that if you aren't using those skills, you'll loose them.

So even if the person was trained in a reputable establishment, what matters is what he or she has been doing lately. How many successful operations have they performed, how many publications, how many buildings have they designed etc. etc. As in any work force you are only as good as your last job.

But there is one more thing to consider. I can't think of any profession where it is typical to get hired into a critical position of trust and responsibility straight out of school. Even newly frocked Doctors (MDs & PhDs) are expected to have served some form of apprenticeship (or internship) as part of or supplemental to their University training.

It's one thing to be able to do it in theory, you've still got to show that you can do it in real life before someone will let you fly solo. And I suspect that that was true even in the utopian days of yore when a University degree from [fill in your favourite tertiary institution] meant something.

Last thing, I would pay close attention to the jaundiced view of the NZ medical profession expressed here by the Kiwi contingent. We have fully socialized Health Care in NZ. Doctors cannot be sued for malpractice because you can't sue the government (their employer). Socialized medicine in NZ is rationed because the government monopoly on Health has led to a short fall in skilled doctors, nurses, Hospital administrators and probably even good sanitory staff if my last trip inside a NZ public hospital was typical of the whole country.

This is what you Americans have to look forward to if the Peikoff plan succeeds in catapaulting Hillary into the Whitehouse.

I've experienced both the NZ and US health systems and believe me: You Yankees don't know how bloody lucky you are!

"Judging by a degree is probably a short cut for judgement, maybe even a substitution."

Judging by a degree is all too often a second hander's substitute for judgement, and the method by which a bureaucracy judges standards, in the absence of any genuine standards.

PC

PS: Onya, Kasper.

I hold 'education' in very high esteem...but have no regard for University Degrees. (There is a difference).

You mention "there is something to be said for gaining information about the world" ...and I agree with you, but suggest you get out and actually experience the World in order to do so, (something which can hardly be done at Auckland University!)

The point I was making, Emma, is that, 40 years ago, people in the 5th Form were studying what you are doing now...so devalued have the standards become, and your Professorship will be at a level of a 1960s Primary School Teacher.

A bit like 40 years ago, when decimal currency came in, what was $1 has been devalued to around 7 cents today.

Regarding your letter - good on you for standing up for your values! Although I don't agree with you on all issues, it's good when you feel strongly to express these sorts of thoughts to your lecturers (and on a side note: perhaps it would be better if you were at Auckland Uni - I know many of my lecturers are very open minded, and are very willing to discuss any possible changes to their courses, if they seem warranted).

In regards to the assertion that university, and education in general, is communistic, I would say it is very socialistic in the way it's run, but I think that's because of the nature of it. The point is not to be dogmatic about it (as in the case of Kasper's lecturer), but rather to be open-minded, and to approach the world from the point of view of many points of view, because in general that tends to be more conducive to a full education.

Lastly, I must protest to Elijah's assertion that education should not be held in high esteem. While it certainly isn't needed to survive, there is something to be said for gaining information about the world, and when it comes to careers outside of business (for instance medicine, law, biology, engineering, physics etc.), while someone may still gain the necessary skills to do those jobs without having been educated in the respective fields, it is, at least, a good indication of their abilities (after all, you want some kind of proof that the engineer you're hiring is not about to build a bridge that will collapse, and that the surgeon you're hiring knows exactly what to do if there are complications during the aforementioned heart surgery). In terms of your questioning the need for a medical degree - you simply exemplify your gross misunderstanding of biology, and particularly the intricacies of human biology. What do you think med students do for those 7 years? Sit on their arse and smoke pot?

And I just have to add to that that I am at the moment studying for the sake of becoming a professor. I do this not for the pursuit of money (though do not get me wrong, I still intend to earn a decent amount) but for the pursuit of knowledge. And the sort of knowledge I look for is not necessarily for capital gain, but for.. gosh, I suppose the only way to put it would be for "cerebral gain", and also because I believe the more we understand about the world, the more we are able to survive in it. I would love to hear your reasoning for holding that in lower esteem than someone whose sole purpose is to have more money than they are able to spend (regardless of how that is achieved).

Edit: I realise I said two seemingly separate things here: "education is not needed to survive" and "the more we understand about the world, the more we are able to survive in it". I just need to clarify I'm using the word "survive" in two slightly different ways. In the first statement, I mean simply to live and to procreate. By that token, we can "survive" in the forest; eating berries and hunting boars, and in that case we certainly don't need to know anything about engineering or heart surgery. However, on the flip side, if we are to move beyond simply "surviving", we are able to "survive" on a 'higher' level (ie. without such high risks of disease, malnutrition, premature death etc.) if we know more about the world in which we survive.

You are absolutely correct.

Must be a New Zealand thing, the only Bob Jones we have here is the Bob Jones University.

But I did the google/wiki search before you sent this, and found nothing to indicate that he knows what he's talking about regarding medicine...

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Spaceplayermusic.com

seems so surprising to find someone unaware of who 'Bob Jones' is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Jones_%28New_Zealand%29

I think his main qualification is a finely tuned "Bullshit Antenna" ...and the gumption to say so!

"As for Medicine, I am inclined to agree with Sir Robert Jones that 90% of medical problems are imaginary or will cure themselves in due course, that treating the other 10% is a matter of common sense, and a mechanic could be taught how to do a heart by-pass in half an hour!"

You havent' told us how you'd pick a doctor yet , but I've another question for ya: Who is this Robert Jones, or, why would you trust his opinion on medical matters? Or, why should we trust YOUR opinion on it? What training do you have to verify Jone's statement? Did he study medicine? What is his qualification to make such a statement? What is his reasoning, his science? Would you trust him to do your heart surgery?

It's possible that he's right, for all I know. But without some objective facts to back this up, this verges on the level of "Natural Cures THEY Don't Want You To Know About."

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My advice: Do what Roark did, get your technical training and junk the rest. Damn the degree.

Jameson, this is where I DO side with Elijah and Linz, that the universities are useless for artistic matters. It's one thing to go to school to study technical matters, to use equipment, etc. It's another thing to learn esthetic matters, or philosophical ones. Art classes have no right to dictate content of a philosophical nature. It's one thing to learn versatility in advertising, it's another to indoctrinate, which is what her teacher/curriculum is doing.

Or, let's change the scenario for a second: What if it was a medical school, and she was asked to do something for homework that went against the human body? The choice would be simple: first, do no harm. (If this seems outlandish, remember the Nazi doctors.) You wouldn't want a student to learn how to harm the body, why teach a student to harm the mind?

One alternative is to find another school. If the schools are lacking, find a private teacher. Challenge policies that do not allow for personal selections, like in this case. If you want to say advertising is different than art, fine. True. But what if, in the work world, as an employee, she is expected to do a design job that goes against her principles? (And it's an ever growing thing now, poliltics have invaded everything from music to toilet paper. Buy Green this and that...). And everytime I read an design magazine, especially the British ones, they heavily promote a socialist agenda openly. Is she going to do the same thing you advise her to do on her school project? She's lose her job. But then maybe she shouldn't be with that company to begin with, and my advice would stand: don't do the project if you can't do it sincerely.

I know it's fiction, but that's what Roark did in the FOUNTAINHEAD. He refused to do assignments, and was thrown out of school. It's the hardest choice, but the most honest.

Incidentally, if she tries it your way, the teacher will know it. Rand told a story of how, in Soviet Russia, she tried that same method, or tried to fake it, but it didn't fool anyone. I understand your sentiment, Jameson, it's akin to what Roark did with Wynand when Wyand threatened him. Roark: "It's easy!" and draws a horrible hybrid. I doubt the teachers would be an honest as Wynand.
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there's a good chance the lecturer will fail Shandie if she "took the piss" out of his brief.

My point is, if the assignment is to illustrate the poems, and the poems are shit, then expose them for what they are. Having failed to get permission to bring to life her own selection of poetry it would seem her only other choice is to either not do the assignment and hope to make up the credit with the next brief, or drop out of the course altogether.

Being true to herself will not lose her soul. Perhaps, through exposing the shit, she will persuade the lecturer to think more deeply about his curriculum. The maxim in advertising is: shit briefs make shit ads. Sometimes we have to go through the painful exercise of showing clients what we mean, but fortunately it's not a task we usually have to repeat.

Do you see an alternative course of action, Joe?

"Shand - my advice is stick to the brief and use it against itself. From what you've said, your lecturer hasn't asked you to make something pretty or noble from the poems. Be true to yourself and find a creative solution to call each spade a spade."

What would it gain her to gain a grade and lose her soul? Roark wouldn't put up with that shit.

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Give 'em heaps, and keep us posted!!

Shand - my advice is stick to the brief and use it against itself. From what you've said, your lecturer hasn't asked you to make something pretty or noble from the poems. Be true to yourself and find a creative solution to call each spade a spade.

... and a mechanic could be taught how to do a heart by-pass in half an hour!

I agree with the sentiment - but 1/2 an hours training might be a bit short.

I was looking for a reference but didn't Fred Hollows train people without previous medical training to perform eye operations?

Of course I'd want to know he was properly qualified from a reputable training establishment. All things being equal a free market would take care of that. These days our doctors (state-trained in NZ) are dumbed down into having a nice bedside manner but little knowledge of such bourgeois irrelevancies as anatomy. (That's half of them. The other half are Muslim imports with no English whose qualifications are phony anyway.) Certainly a *humanities* degree nowadays is a guarantee of moronry. Or how about an MBA as a testament to the unemployability of its holder?! And as a journalist/broadcaster schooled in the university of life I alternate between hilarity and incredulity at the airheadedness of journalism degree graduates. Christ, they can't even speak!

Ok, let me rephase this...Elijah, where would you go if you had cancer? To who would you go? Either ideally, or now...not who you wouldn't go to...

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let me put it this way...

When selecting someone with a University Degree in New Zealand you have the following choices (all of them bad)

1. If they got their degree in the 1950s or earlier they are too old and doddery to take a risk with.

2. If they got their degree in the 1960s they were too busy being treated for the clap during the 'Summer of Love' to attend lectures.

3. If they got their degree in the 1970s they were too busy consuming large quantities of Marty Johnstone's thai sticks and heroin to be coherent enough to learn anything.

4. If they got their degree in the 1980s they were studying rather than making money from the Sharemarket like everybody else, and clearly have no initiative.

5. If they got their degree after 1990 the standard was so low it is the equivalent of 'School Certificate' in the 1960s, and therefore not worth the paper it is written on.

6. If the person has a degree from the 1960s or 70s but the details in 2 and 3 do not apply...then they are dull and boring and probably wear grey shoes and cardigans.

But seriously...

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Spaceplayermusic.com

Linz, how would you pick a doctor?

By his buns.

Linz, how would you pick a doctor?

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so true, Lindsay!

One of the great Capitalists of all time was Sir James Goldsmith who never employed anyone with a University Degree.

His most notable employee, 'Chainsaw' Al Dunlap was a West Point graduate and, unsurprisingly, a 'Man of Action' rather than some MBA dullard.

I gather Branson doesn't risk his billions to such people either.

... by a degree. If he's got one, he's a moron.

Elijah, well, I have to congratulate you on your audacity, at least.

RE The Medical issue, I have a hard time accepting that answer, because if that were the case, we'd have cures for cancer, aids, and death by now. Not only that, but just the time it would take for a beginner to figure out surgery for himself, it's more efficient to study what's already known without reinventing the wheel. And who would volunteer to be that guinea pig?

But I'm not totally a disbeliever on what you say, because of an argument Alvin Toffler presented in REVOLUTIONARY WEALTH, that because medicine has been so mystified in most people's minds, doctors are seen as the only ones who practice it. But with the information age upon us, many patients are more knowledgable on some issues than their doctors, who don't have the time to keep up with the latest research. He goes a little more extreme in suggesting that we may be able to practice medicine ourselves, but I think that's feasible, at least.

At any rate, I do have to admit to a sympathy with you on school in general for most topics. Especially anything art related. I was recently told I'm not qualifed for a design position because I don't have a degree, despite the fact that I have the skills. But when I read posts like Shandra's, well...it makes me agree with you that people should be self-employed.

It's interesting what you said about building a house: I've been thinkng about the fact that architects usually don't get to build until they're in their 40's or so. You're right, the best way to do something is to do it, but that doesn't guarantee quality, for sure. The issue becomes one of, not what you can do on your own, but what you can convince other people to let you do for them (if you want to make profits.) Often they want some kind of credentials, some assurance that the doctor or architect has the necessary skills. Judging by a degree is probably a short cut for judgement, maybe even a substitution .

Very proud of you Kasper
I am experiencing almost the very same thing in my course at AUT (in Art and Design). For my brief I have to read 5 poems and then create a visual image for each one. Great I thought!!! But then I read the poems and MY GOD!! Horrible, horrible poems, Moari proverbs (which make no bloody sense to me), poems in txt language, poems about someone getting hit in the head with an eel for christ sake.
So I rung my lecturer to ask him if i could choose my own poems (I mean of all the beautiful poetry out there that I could turn into beautiful images!!) but he said no I have to use the ones they have provided and his excuse is "It's a client thing, you want to make Coke but they want Fanta".
Bollocks!
Shandra

This is quite exemplary in its courage and conviction. I understand Kasper's already been summoned for a spanking. Keep us posted, KK!

remember a quotation from the movie star Christopher Walken who said "If you want to know how to build a house...start building a house".

That is my attitude towards things...just get stuck in and start 'doing it'...not pissing about being taught how to do it by University lecturers (who have not done it themselves).

As for Medicine, I am inclined to agree with Sir Robert Jones that 90% of medical problems are imaginary or will cure themselves in due course, that treating the other 10% is a matter of common sense, and a mechanic could be taught how to do a heart by-pass in half an hour!

While there's no controversy here about the communist infiltration of the schools, or even the uselessness of some courses, to dismiss higher education entirely is such an obvious mistake, as to be laughable. For example, suppose you'd rather have your doctors skipping school to "make money and have fun" at the expense of medical training?
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no of course I was not joking.

I do not hold University study, or a degree, in any sort of esteem, believing young people should get out and make money.

I have always been at a loss as to the logic of 3 or 4 years of Communist studies at a University, when chaps in their late teens could be doing something more fun and worthwhile.

I find even more remarkable the attitude of Working Class people who say "I am the first person from my family who went to University.."

(well..ummmmm...so what?)

"What are you doing there, Kasper? why are you not out and about engaging in profit making activities like everybody else? "

Tell me this was tongue in cheek. Please.

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I am interested in the Human body, treating it and working with it. However not pationate enough for medicine. This degree gives many opportunities, security, step in the door etc. Physio's can trade independantly, however I do plan to use the income initially as leverage on investments until they takeover. When I finish with the degree, I can explore other interests later at a higher level, such as Marketing, Business development, property, foreign exchange, philosophy and lots of really fun other things which masturbate my intellect and bank account
kkulak

AUT..well..gosh, yes, that explains it!

I will concede one thing....the Library at the Auckland University is AMAZING ...they have soooooo many obscure books I thought were unobtainable in New Zealand, and it is a delight to pop in there 3 or 4 times per week to find a comfortable chair and read some wonderful books.

However, it remains that Communism is alive and well at the Universities.

What are you doing there, Kasper? why are you not out and about engaging in profit making activities like everybody else?

AUT -Auckland University of Technology, studying physio. I might be but it's one of those things I have to learn from trying it out. What really ticks me off is that in order to pass I almost have to think like they do. I have to write assignments which advocate their socialist flawed premises and my research in year 4 or any masters research I do, has to incorporate 1) Maori 2) be in line with Maori participation, partnership and protection. I wish to express no sympathy towards those people whatsoever. As was said before somewhere on Solopassion, "sympathy kills the imagination" and validates a person’s sense of helplessness to their circumstance. Combined it is the catalyst to powerlessness and subordination to victimhood in ones life.
kkulak

are probably wasting your time as all University Lecturers are Communists to varying degrees.

Which University do you attend?