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A Judo thread Submitted by NickOtani on Wed, 2007-09-05 06:17.
You ever gonna do a thread on Judo? Seriously I'd respond respectfully with things other than snide one-liners and everything. Judo is a combative sport, like boxing or wrestling. It is not a martial art, like karate or kung fu. It is not self-defense, like jujitsu. It is a sport. However, it evolved from jujitsu and many weaponless, hands-on, combat techniques to become the formal sport that it is. It has rules, uniforms, a mat, and rituals. There should be many stages of training and ranks. One learns first to fall, then simple foot and leg throws, then hip and shoulder throws, then combinations and counters, then grappling techniques: immobilizing holds, arm bars, and choke holds and how to escape from them or reverse them. It is much like high school wrestling but with jackets on and a few different maneuvers. And, like high school wrestling, it is a strenuous sport for the cardiovascular system. It is anaerobic activity. A few minutes on the mat is like running several miles at full speed. Judo means “the gentle way”, which means a way to use an opponent’s force against him or her rather than going force against force. The theory is that grass, which gives way in the wind, pops back up when the storm is gone. This is better than resisting like the mighty oak and breaking. When an opponent comes directly at a judoka from the front, the judoka moves out of way, grabbing the opponent and pulling him or her in the same direction he or she wants to go. The judoka places a foot in the path of the opponent, at just the moment when the opponent is stepping down to get his or her footing, and the opponent goes flying. The judoka holds onto the opponent, directing his or her fall such that the opponent lands on his or her side. This will prevent injury, providing the opponent doesn’t reach for the mat or bang his or her knees together or hit his or her head on the mat. This is why training how to fall comes first, before someone is even allowed to be thrown. With the throw, though, the judoka actually uses less force than the opponent did. The judoka’s effort added to the opponent’s force, and propelled the opponent forward in the same direction the opponent was propelling him or herself. Then, with a well placed foot blocking the opponent’s foot, the opponent finds himself or herself going forward without any legs under him or her and being twisted, in mid-air, to land on his or her side. If the opponent is leaning back and pulling the judoka toward him or her, the judoka merely pushes, helping the opponent to go backwards, and puts a leg quickly behind the opponent, pushing him or her over the leg. A good judoka knows what to do when pushed or pulled in any direction. And, a good judoka takes short steps, dragging feet on the mat so as not to have one foot swept away, and a good judoka never crosses feet as he or she moves. There are ways to fake out an opponent. One can pull slightly at an opponent making the opponent naturally resist by pulling back, then the judoka pushes. Or, the judoka can push the opponent, making him or her push back, and then suddenly pull the opponent in the direction the opponent wants to go, making him or her lose balance. When two very good judokas go against each other, it is like a chess match, both judokas trying to a weakness in the other. Nothing happens until, suddenly, one of them makes a mistake. There are combinations and counters and all sorts of things that only those of us who know what is going on will recognize. Judo matches do not look like Bruce Lee fights. They are sort of boring until someone goes flying. Judokas learn to bow when they enter a Dojo, the place where they practice Judo. It’s a way of showing respect for the place where Judo is practiced. The Judoka proceeds to the locker room and puts on his or her Gi, the judo uniform. It is loose pants and a heavy knitted cotton jacket. Karate jackets would get ripped too easily since judokas grab and pull on the jackets a lot. There is a way of tying the belt. Then, when the judoka emerges from the locker room back out to the mat, he or she bows before stepping on the mat. Good mats are made of bamboo or a kind of rubber that imitates bamboo. It is called tatame, and it is very expensive. People do not walk on it with their shoes. It is only one inch thick. If one doesn’t fall on it properly, one can still get hurt. Before the session begins, all non-black belt judokas kneel at the back of the tatame while the black belts kneel in front facing them. The highest ranking non-black belt judoka announces, in Japanese, “ready bow” (I don’t know how to spell “keots kei rei”) then the students bow to the black belts and the black belts bow to the students. Then, there are general warm-up exercises, as in any sport, and it ends with a line going through falling exercises, rolling on the mat as one should when one is thrown. One learns to relax. The theory is that if one is tight, like a full sack of flower, one can get hurt, like a full sack of flower breaks when it is dropped. But if the sack is half full, it flops, without braking. Finally, when all the warm-up exercises are over and we have all practiced our falling, our ukemi, then we go to our areas of the mat to practice. The beginners, white belts go with one of the black belts to learn more about falling and beginning throws. Some students are working on the throws and techniques they need to test for the next higher belt, they go and practice on those techniques. And, some students get together with other students at about their same rank and do free-exercise, randori. It’s like a match but just practice, not full out competition. We let each other come in for throws and only resist enough to let one know where the problems are. It’s like sparing. Of course, as we greet our opponents, we bow. When we finish working with them, we bow. We go through this again if we change partners. Then, at the end of the session, we line up like at the beginning and bow to the black belts who bow back. We bow to the mat when we leave it. We go back to the locker room and take a shower. Then, we bow to the Dojo as we leave. This is all important protocol in the Judo Dojo. People who think they will be like Bruce Lee in a very short time will lose interest. Judo is a lot of work, and not much fun until one has been at it for several years. Tournaments are fun, and one sees what is effective and what isn’t. It is not like karate, where one pulls one’s punches and is only judged on form. It is hands on, and if a throw doesn’t work, it will be obvious. In extreme fighting, where anything goes, those who have had some Judo training have an advantage. Hits and kicks, although impressive in the movies, do not usually work like that in reality. People usually win when they get a good pressure hold on an opponent. Judokas and wrestlers learn these things. Judokas do not fight in a free for all manner, but they do know how to adapt to a street situation if they need to. They usually also know a few jujitsu techniques that are not legal in the sport but easy to apply when needed. They can see all the openings that untrained people do not see and do not know enough to guard against. Nick
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Judo in films
You will actually see judo more often than you think in films,...
I just read this a few minutes ago, while I was watching an old episode of CSI:NY. The head cop was on the roof of a building with a bad guy. He put away his gun, after the bad guy taunted him. They started fighting, hand to hand, and the cop got in close and threw the bad guy with a perfect Ogoshi, a hip throw.
Yes, one does see judo once in awhile.
However, I've also seen some of these chicks fighting movies where amatures film real fights. The girls flail and kick and pull hair, but none of them use judo. If one of them would have a year or two of judo training, she would be able to get the upper hand real easy in all those fights.
bis bald,
Nick
speaking my language
All interesting stuff so far. But as far as the inspiration/depiction in art I actually have reference on that.
You will actually see judo more often than you think in films, the key is that to depict it interestingly it has to be a master against a highly unskilled person who is usually much stronger but sloppy. You skip to the interesting parts Batman throws the thug (or in one case Superman) across the room in fluid motion without breaking a sweat.
Along those lines I can see how pro-wrestling would apply, but judo seems to suffer from the same problems that has kept greco-roman wrestling from picking up popularity as a spectator sport. When something happens IT'S BIG, but there could be several minutes of dead time between anything worth watching. I always found it interesting how pro wrestling developed out of carnivals due to:
a) the same people are fighting every night while most athletes take months to prepare for a single fight so tricks to preserve health become necessary
b) if you're already taking things out of the "fighting for your life" context, why not fix the things that make it not work as a spectator sport, make sure there's always something interesting going on and that you tell a good story to your viewers.
I think part of the problem why you don't see judo in film in general is because of the pacing while strike based fighting opens up more possibilities in fight scenes with more than two people (due to the old boxing principle "Stick and Move"). Granted I could see an actual Judo competition make for a good film. If you've ever seen any of the"Rocky" movies or a smaller film called "Girlfight" they both make use of communication from the clutch to move the story. In Rocky it usually points out how the fight changes the characters involved whereas in Girlfight the final fight is between two lovers and it points out how their feelings for each other are affected by what each of them will do during the course of the fight.
---Landon
Inking is sexy.
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes
Find a good Dojo
Most fair sized cities have one, but it doesn't get much publicity. Kung Fu and Karate places advertise, but Judo usual keeps quiet. These days, Judo is mostly for children. The adult classes are much smaller. There may be policemen or military people there, trying to keep up their training. Talk to the Sensei. See if there are tournaments coming up and how well their club does.
They usually train twice a week for two hours at a time, and a beginner will practice falling techniques for about three months before learning to throw or get thrown. However, good Senseis know how to keep the training interesting. There are a variety of ways to practice falling. One does summersaults, rolling alnog one side and slaping the mat with the other hand. One can dive over someone who is on hands and knees. An advance student or Sensei can throw one carefully. All tjhis keeps it a little interesting.
A good training session, after the warm-ups and the falling routines and the bowing, usually starts demonstrations of techniques by someone who does it well, then everybody practices under the guidence of Senseis or advanced students. Later, when everybody is tired and having trouble concentrating on the intellectual stuff, they may have a scrimage tournament, a friendly match between two advanced students while everyone sits at the edge of the mat to watch. The beginners can watch and see what they will be able to do when they stick with it. When they train kids, the have to play games which are safe.
There are books to read which explain the techniques and show pictures of how it should be done. It would be great if you could get some footage of an Olympc tournament where champion Judokas compete against each other.
I know. Inspiration for basketball is everywhere. And, people get inspiration for Karate by watching the Kung Fu flicks. One can also practice karate alone, just going through the Katas, working on form. Judo requires a partner, and there aren't many Judo flicks. The closest we come to them are professional wrestling, which will become even more obviously fake the more one learns about Judo.
There are some good paperback books I remember reading as a kid which had hero Judokas saving the day and beating up the bad guys, but they also mixed in a lot of karate.
I don't know. Perhaps I'll have to write some stuff.
Landon stood on the mat, facing his opponent, a stocky Japanese fellow with a well worn Gi. Landon and his opponent bow to each other and then to the official, a black belt standing to the side but between him and his this Japanese fellow. Landon is nervous. The official shouts Hajami! And the Japanese fellow approaches, grabs Landon's Gi by the left lapel and right arm sleeve, and Landon does the same to the Japanese fellow. They push and pull each other around for a while, each draging his feet and taking small slides, not crossing legs leaving one open to a foot sweep, De Ashi Bari. Suddenly, the Japanese fellow comes in for a hip throw, Ogoshi. Landon tries to resist by leaning back. He doesn't want to be thrown forward. However, the Japanese fellow quickly changes direction. Instead of a hip throw, he straitens up and puts his leg behind Landon and pushes him back, in the same direction Landon is leaning. It is Osoto Gari, one of the first throws one learns, and it catches Landon just as it should. The Japanese guy used a combination to fake Landon out, to get him to lean backwards, and then switched to a throw which would throw him backwards. The Japanese guy basically helped Landon throw himself. All this is going through Landon's mind as he feels himself fall. He must use the proper falling technique and not get hurt. Yes, he will lose the match. But wait! He still has a hold of the Japanese fellow, and the Japanese fellow is also a little off balance. Landon continues to fall backward but holds onto the Japanese fellow and places a foot near the mid-section of the Japanese fellow. It is a throw called Tomeo Nage, a sacrifice throw. If it is not done just right, the Japanese fellow will land on top of Landon and have an advantage in the grappling which will continue on the mat. However, if it is done right, the Japanese fellow will fly over Landon, heals over head, and land on his back. This will mean that Landon saved himself from imminent defeat and threw his opponent in a spectacular way.
"Ippon!" shouts the official. Then he says, "Matte." Both fighters get up and face each other again. "Rei" says the official, and holds his hand toward Landon as both Landon and his opponent bow to each other. The match is over and Landon won.
Now, thinks Landon, if only it would be this easy to win a debate with that Nick Otani dude on the SOLO board.
bis bald,
Nick
lot of good information
I'll have to come back when I have more time, first question though is what would you recomend to someone looking to take up learning the sport, and are there any things that help keep you motivated during the begining lull?
---Landon
Inking is sexy.
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes
Aerobic activity and anaerobic activity
Aerobic activity is "with air". It is like running long distances. One takes in air as one goes. Running a marathon would be aerobic activity. Running at "full speed", a wind sprint, however, is anaerobic. There is exertion of energy using up all the air in the muscles without time to take in any. One can keep up aerobic activity for several hours, but anaerobic activity can only be done for a minute or two, or less.
Marathon runners are usually very thin. Sprinters and competitive weight lifters, who need explosive energy, have bigger muscles. They would not be able to run marathons as effectively as the thin folks.
bis bald,
Nick
ummm, nick...
nick,
Aerobic activity and anaerobic activity are substantially different in their physiological effects and demands on the human body. That's why they have different names. You have directly equated them: "It is anaerobic activity. A few minutes on the mat is like running several miles at full speed."
To test this difference, hold your breath and run several miles. Now, hold your breath and pick up your chair. One you can do while holding your breath, one you can't.
rootie