got a bit sidetracked with this on a tangent of suits and snobbery, but I want to comment on a very important matter which was raised at the Conference, and how it relates to Objectivism.

One speaker made the observation that in New Zealand a businessman tends to get stuck in, make some money, purchase a nice house, a holiday home somewhere, a BMW and then feel he has 'made it' and that is that.

Few businessmen in this country seem to go forward at this point and create business empires, as happens abroad.

It is reminiscent of Atlas Shrugged and the strikers.

Rather a shame we have no encouragement in NZ, and indeed a 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' which actively discourages success, innovation and empire building.

Why would someone bother creating a new export market, when the Government will steal 1/3 of the profits and openly criticise you as a parasite engaging in shady behaviour?

A good example of misplaced priorities is a chap who has half a million dollars burning a hole in his pocket.

He could either set up a factory, start making that product he designed at his kitchen table and be flogging it off in Sydney and Asia, creating employment, bringing valuable export dollars into the economy and perhaps inspiring a dozen other chaps to do something similar...

...or he could purchase a Bentley (for business purposes, naturally).

Bentley cars tend not to lose their value, and as such is a novel way to preserve wealth (as well as highlighting wealth).

Guess which option has the better tax advantages?

Comments please...

'Just fine' meaning 'smoking hot', of course. Evolutionarily it would actually make sense for pregnant women to be unattractive, but that's sure not the case.

Actually I've always thought pregnant women look just fine, in a sort of uber-feminine way. Millions of years worth of natural selection at work I guess.

---
Buy and wear InfidelGear - 100% of all InfidelGear profit goes to SOLO!

Elijah said: gosh! do not misunderstand me.
I am not suggesting anyone is a 'slob' by being dressed casually."

No, it's okay: in dress matters, I'm a slob. But it's hell trying to work round a beer pot, so what's a man to do (although we've brought one of those AbKing things, so I can sculpt myself into some sort of chiseled Adonis, apparently, or, just stay as I am and drink more: not too sure which way to go just yet.)

And, talking of beer pots ...

Jennifer said, " It used to be such a joy to walk down Madison Avenue and admire the fabulous outfits and shoes. Now I usually cringe."

Strangely enough, agreed on that. Perhaps a sign of prudishness on my behalf, but I do think that some woman with all their bits hanging out are not doing themselves any favours, or me. And let's get sexist: pregnant women with their bellies out in those thigh high things, might be natural, but pretty damned dreadful, nevertheless. And as for blokes in those big baggy trousers half way down their legs so you can see their undies: dire and alarming, definitely an assault to the senses.

Come to think of it, if the blokes baggy bits could be used to cover the blokesses showing bits, the streets would be safe to walk again. 

I do swoon for a sharply dressed man. My father was a master tailor, so that sense of aesthetics is ingrained.

Casual is fine in many circumstances, but I do miss the days when people dressed well for work. It used to be such a joy to walk down Madison Avenue and admire the fabulous outfits and shoes. Now I usually cringe. I *hate* Dockers.

Jennifer

-- Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

gosh! do not misunderstand me.
I am not suggesting anyone is a 'slob' by being dressed casually, merely that I like the packaging.

To give an example, President Bush in a suit radiates confidence, President Bush in shorts, jandals and a t-shirt asking for an extra 21,000 troops in Iraq would raise suspicions...(Jimmy Carter wearing a cardigan being the precedent)

Creech more or less said that Dairy prices have reached the high point and should sit where they are for a while...(rather than falling).

In terms of new markets, one company of which he is Chairman, Open Country Cheese, cannot supply anywhere near the demand for their products and this will guarantee the survival of the company.

(I am sitting here in my drawing room, and yes, wearing a suit)

That is not only sad, Elijah, but sounds a bit obsessive compulsive to me Here's the test: if you weren't wearing that suit in your drawing room, would some significant other die, perhaps your foot would drop off, your arm, or something along those lines?

I just think it makes a chap look better ...taking pride in appearance.

Personal preference. I've never worried about the packaging, well, talking about significant others' I guess there is packaging, and there is 'packaging'. Good to see I might have a fellow slob in Lindsay though, by the looks of it.

Elijah a serious question though, per my first post to this thread, did Creech pass any comment on how the current increases in dairy commodity prices would affect that Company's bottom line and ability to create new markets? I suspect Norgate may be right when he says with the current high prices some of 'dairy products' customer bases (bad grammar, sorry) may be getting burnt off, such as happened in 2001?

ALL of us, surely? ..(I am sitting here in my drawing room, and yes, wearing a suit)

I just think it makes a chap look better ...taking pride in appearance.
What I object to are suits worn incorrectly, as it seems gauche and embarrassing.

A great aspect of CATO Institute conferences is the requirement of wearing a suit!

Curiously, Unlisted is a bit slow today...I would have expected more people to be jumping in buying everything in sight.

... the bullet is for when you don a suit. All suit-wearers should be shot on sight. Those who like ties should be hanged with the things.

...has a bullet with my name on it.

That sounds *very* Libertarian to me.

Cheers Matty and Claudia: luckily the webmaster put me straight last night.

See.

Claudia, luckily I can remain scruffy as I've not once propositioned a woman in a bar, so we're both safe. (I remain in a Libertarian mindset in everything but my marriage, where my lovely wife, as oft quoted, has a bullet with my name on it )

disable rich text before using html.

(Can someone please pm me how to make html tags work in this forum. It's driving me nuts).

Go and put a suit on and I will!

To italicize a word, type Greater than symbol, then i, then Less than symbol - then type word to be italicized, then complete with Greater than symbol, forward slash, then i, then Less than symbol.

To make something bold, same format but "b" instead of "i".

Hopefully someone else will inform you how to create links. I tried, but I only managed to create fake links!

I like dressing up too - in fact I'm more likely to don a suit jacket to pick my wife up from the airport than I am to go to work.  My everyday workwear consists of jeans, t-shirt, leather jacket, and black dress shoes.

---
Buy and wear InfidelGear - 100% of all InfidelGear profit goes to SOLO!

I'm with you on the dress sense gripe. I haven't clapped eyes on a well dressed man for yonks! Kiwi men seldom EVER like dressing up, even when they can afford to. When I go out on the town, I dress to the nines - stockings, slinky dresses, stiletto heels etc... and most men are wearing beach baggies, t-shirts and boat shoes. It's disheartening, but gives me a valid excuse to rib them... which can be quite revealing... eg:

Badly dressed man - "Can I buy you a drink?"

Claudia - "Not dressed like that. It looks as though a two year old let loose on your shirt with a felt pen."

Badly dressed man - "What? You won't accept a drink from me because I'm not dressed to your standard?"

Claudia - "That's correct."

Badly dressed man - "You're a snob."

Claudia - "Correct again."

Badly dressed man - "Well, at least you admit it."

Claudia - "I do. Do you admit you're badly dressed?"

Badly dressed man - "I'm not badly dressed, my wife chose this shirt! I mean my girlfr... my flatmate."

Elijah said:

What did sadden me...(because I consider this sort of thing to be very important) ...is the number of chaps from presenting Companies, Sharebrokers, Investment bankers and others with no dress sense (or breeding?) ...

At 41 years old, I'm close, not there, but close to a position to retire and do the 'stuff' I really want to, and keep my career as an interest and top up ... but, have never worn, nor do I own, a suit. Can't abide them. I wear loose white, comfortable, t-shirts and trainers the majority of the time. Casual-wear is me.

And feel sorry for those sad bastards who have to wear silly looking ties to express their individuality, because they're stuck in a suit

But agree with the rest of your post, Elijah.

Don't know about Blue Sky Meats, or Open Country Cheeses. The latter actually suffers from the dairy boom, doesn't it, as the cost of its main ingredient will be skyrocketing. My personal wish is that Fonterra would float some part of its capital (but only if related to the commodity price, it's value added component is taking a hit for the same reason as I have hypothesised above for Open Country Cheeses)?

(Can someone please pm me how to make html tags work in this forum. It's driving me nuts).