Consider me a "pompous" American for asking this, but....

KingRandor82's picture
Submitted by KingRandor82 on Mon, 2007-10-22 01:04

why, exactly, would anyone WANT to live in any other country, other than the USA?

I mean- most other governments tax their citizens up the wazoo in ways most Americans are fortunate enough not to have to deal with, there are severe restrictions on personal and economic freedoms- and I DO mean severe. I even wonder often how companies in other countries manage to make any profit at all on the goods and services they sell. I also wonder why Americans would WANT to move out of the country, other than due to some idiotic socialist brainwashing.

IF anyone could open my eyes to this, I'd like to hear it.


( categories: )

King

Elijah Lineberry's picture

it was the approval ratings of Clinton I was referring to.

I am convinced that President Nixon was brought down by the 'Oil Shock'.
Watergate was purely a media creation, a fiction invented by Woodward, Bernstein, Ben Bradley and that evil b***h (who caused her own Husband to commit suicide!) Kay Graham.

By a stomach churning unforseen coincidence, the 'Saturday Night Massacre' took place almost at the precise moment of the Yom Kippur War with a resulting Oil Shock, and was simply too much for the American public to handle...so they went along with the 'Impeach Nixon' crusade.

Clinton survived actual criminal behaviour...(after a couple of decades of regularly engaging in criminal behaviour)...because of a very positive Nation getting richer and richer and looking forward to the future.
I had a couple of short holidays in America in 1997 and 99, and was most impressed at the positive atmosphere I experienced from places I visited and people I spoke with.

Reagan survived his 'Iran Contra' retraction "I said there were no arms for hostages, still believe that to be true...so get stuffed!" Sticking out tongue because the 'Roaring 80s' were in full flight with no clouds on the horizon.

Contrast that with Jimmy Carter's embarrassing 'Malaise' speech...pathetically reading out grammatically incorrect letters, and openly admitting he had no vision, no solutions to economic problems and then accusing everyone else of having given up too! Shocked

(What kind of a man needs to spend a fortnight in seclusion reading letters from working class people in order to ascertain there are economic and social problems?!?!) Shocked

I HEART USA, you are more

KingRandor82's picture

I HEART USA, you are more than free to believe whatever it is you choose to, but I assure you- I'm no troll. However, I will entirely confess that my thinking is and will likely always BE "black and white". I'm not too fond of middle ground- to me, middle ground means "undecided". This is actually something I happen to agree on, with Rush Limbaugh- at least in his context of the famous Rodney King line "can't we all just get along?". Middle Ground basically means you don't stand for anything- at least, that's my interpretation.

Elijah, while I think your analysis of the moods that each president brought in was ok, I must strike some severe criticism of the mood you claim Clinton brought in. I was a teenager at the time. I assure you- the atmosphere mentality was NOT a positive one. Oh yeah, he cut taxes and "balanced the budget"( actually, Reagan, Newt Gingrich and HIS cronies did all that, while Clinton took the credit, to keep his approval ratings up)...only to engineer a recession just before leaving office.

Dinther, unions are rapidly going the way of the dodo here in America...and they're popping up in YOUR countries now( and you guys say we never do anything for you ;D)

Mr. Sturm, very well put- I guess a lot of it has to do with the things one values in his/her life. Obviously- money and economics mean a LOT to me, and HAVING money means a lot to me.

Jameson...couldn't have said it better m'self Smiling

Despite

Elijah Lineberry's picture

'taxation' and my good self being tangential at best... I also think it would be fun to live in America.

The good thing about America is it always requires "somewhere to go" ...always looking to the future, always requires a goal to work towards, which is lacking in New Zealand...something brilliantly summed up by Lincoln Tan in the New Zealand Herald yesterday.

When you get periods like the 1970s with that halfwit Carter having no vision, no goal and merely treading water...Americans quickly lost faith and self confidence.

Ron Reagan comes along and offers a vision and a series of goals and the place snapped back very quickly.

Similarly with President Clinton and a booming economy and a wonderful internet based 21st Century...it rather captured the imagination a decade ago.

Arguably President Bush has failed in this respect, as uniting the Country to fight terrorism rather wore off after a while...and his second term has no goals or objectives people can get their teeth into, but more a case of wishing and hoping.

Let's "hope" the troops in Iraq pull a rabbit out of a hat...
Let's "hope" the price of oil does not cripple us...
Let's "hope" there are no major terrorist attacks...

...hardly the basis to instil confidence in people, or make them feel these are "The best of times" and they are standing on the threshold of an amazing future their Grandparents could not have dreamed of.

You got me there, Elijah...

Jameson's picture

Nevertheless, I'd rather be paying taxes in Greenbacks... Smiling

I

Elijah Lineberry's picture

was talking about income tax.

The total income tax on a $350,000 income is 36% (19.5% on the first $38,000, 33% of the next $32,000 and 39% on the remaining $290,000).

With regards to GST it is a bit hard to calculate how much a chap actually pays...for example, if he is very 'thrifty' and saves $2000 per week, there is no gst paid as that money is not spent, similarly with mortgage payments or whatever.

If the chap is self employed, the gst he pays is deducted from the gst collected...and so on...too many variables to be accurate or provide an 'average'.

(I do not mean to be nitpicky, Jameson Sticking out tongue but...ummmm..there are no tarrifs) Eye

America...

Jameson's picture

is still the greatest country on the planet.

Elijah, what planet are you on...?

Jameson's picture

Where do you get the idea that the average kiwi making $350,000 living in... "let's say 'Auckland'...would be paying 36% in income taxes."???!!!

Progressive personal income tax in NZ is sitting at 39%. When you add Government Service Tax on every transaction we're paying more than 50%!! And after you take into consideration all the levies and tariffs and other hidden taxes we're bleeding to the tune of something like 75%!!!!

Bare in mind the average kiwi does not have an account in the Caymans... Smiling

Last week I was playing

Newberry's picture

Last week I was playing tennis in Central Park, my first time there. I was playing with a guy who played there often, we were given the court smack in front of the club house. Our court was in the center of a long row of courts, about 4 on either side of us.

I grew up on tennis courts. The guy I was playing recently won an Open division tournament in Manhattan. Anyway, I was playing great, giving this guy a beating, when from behind me two guys started screaming at me that I was playing with four balls instead of three. They were city park guys, dressed in green, overall uniforms. I’ve played everywhere, and I never heard of rule about 3 balls...so I started joking with them about this rule. Then a third guy, a New Yorker, started screaming at me as well! You have to play with 3 balls, 4 is against the rules. "Is it written down?" I jested. All three of them got red in the facing yelling louder as if I didn’t understand them.

My opponent came over apologized to them and put one of the balls away in his bag. Later, I realized what the story was–the courts were not regulation, they narrowed the distance between courts to fit more in–this causes problems like ending up in the side court running down a shot, or stray balls often roll across. I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the city guys was not the master planner of the courts placement. Smiling

 Michael

http://www.MichaelNewberry.com

Union or non union and what is wrong with the American people

dinther's picture

I was 21 years old when I was send to Buffalo as an electrical engineer. I went there with a mechanical engineer. I worked for a Dutch company at the time that produces tyre manufacturing machines. Dunlop in Buffalo purchased a multimillion dollar ply cutter that we were going to put into production.

All my life I looked up to the USA and this was going to be a great experience. I never had to deal with unions in my life and had no respect what so ever for the concept.

Dunlop had a staff car-park on the corner of an intersection with two unmarked entrances only 50 meters apart, both leading into the exact same parking space. Naturally we took the nearest and parked our car.

Near the other gate was a pickup truck with a guy sitting in the trunk wearing a basebal cap (Never understood the US fascination with those dumb caps) and playing with a baseball bat. He was glaring at us but hey, this is the land of the free so we proceeded to unload the trunk as we had plenty of heavy tools with us.

Once we were done and the car was locked he waited until we were passing and while still sitting on this truck slapping his baseball bat he drawled (Yes to me even North Americans drawl)

"Union or non Union"

Me, innocent Dutchy: "Excuse me, what?"

Eventually he explained himself. "You came through the union gate and only union members may pass through the union gate" He pointed to the car with his bat and said "Pick up your tools, put it in the car, get out the union gate, and come back in though the non union gate."

Well, you should know by know how I think about authority so I told him to "piss off" upon which he immediately responded with a threatening attitude. My colleague, an older and wiser man suggested we'd do as he said. But not me, I told this union idiot that I was sorry for passing through his gate and next time I'd take the other gate.

He would not agree and insisted we'd do as we were told. Then I gave in hugely by suggesting that my colleague would stay with the tools while I drive the car around through the non union gate. Again, no. The tools must go the same route.

I told my colleague to put the tools back in the car. The union guy smiled. He had won. We drove off out of the union gate but drove past the non union gate where I proceeded to drive right op to the head office entrance. There I parked the car smack in front of the office door were we proceeded to unload our tools, don our overalls and proceeded inside through the office environment.

Plenty of confused looks but I told reception that we had no other way into the premises and we were here with a job to do. They issued us the security passes and we were on our way to our job. I have no idea what happened to the car.

It wasn't until lunch time that a posse of 3 union members and 4 security guards came walking into the production hall. They had finally found us in the huge complex after searching for us all morning.

We were making great progress on the machine but the union electricians we were told to leave. for a while I thought there was going to be a beat up but it did not come to that. The union guys were furious and I lost my cool as well and told them that I would simply pack up, jump on a plane back to Europe and they could go and stare at their multi million dollar not working machine for a while.

Stupid argument of course because unions really don't care about productivity. So we were thrown out of the building the way we came in. They were very specific about that. Just to make sure they felt uncomfortable I kept cursing all the way back to the car. Hey, I was only 21!

We took a few days off and refused to return to that factory even after several calls from Dunlop people and our own company representatives in the USA. Eventually I was cooled down enough but now it was my turn to be difficult and I insisted that we have our own parking place in front of the main office and that would be our only way to access the factory. They agreed and so we proceeded to got the job done.

 

What blew me away was the power those union idiots had over Dunlop management. I could not believe 7 people spend a whole morning searching for us. I was saddened to see how regular good people like those electricians would turn away when ordered by the union people. It reminds me of stories I heard from my grand parents about the second world war when the jew were rounded up. Nobody spoke up either.

Since then I have traveled the world, worked in many countries and seen some crazy shit. I also have had many other dealings with American companies that all somehow had to deal with unions.

This is why I dare to say that the USA is not "Land of the Free" and has not been for many decades now.

I have no data but I suspect there is not a western country in the world were there are more people employed in the law enforcement industry. I am talking about people in the army, security firms, police, fire brigade, Home security, CIA, FBI, lawyers and so on. What's more, In my experience Americans tend to look up to people in these kinds of roles and I believe it is the desire of every American to one day be on the giving end of a power stick.

I think that after so many wars, Americans have become afraid of the world, they are afraid of life and afraid of change. Still to this date no black or female person has even made it to the white house. Devout religion is stronger in the USA than it is in any other western nation. I think the USA it is a sick place in terms of attitude and that is sad. America is capable of great things. It truly is the land of opportunities but the will to perform has been eroded by conservatism and patriotism to a sad reflection of what once was. If western culture ever has a chance to survive then conservativism is not it.

It takes brave people that go out in the world that look up and re-learn what it is that makes people great. Every American should travel around the world for at least 2 years with no money and learn how to deal with real life.

It might just re-kindle the will to live and perform because questions like the one that started this thread from "KingRandor82" (Do you have a name?) highlight the stifling , scared, conservative, religious, police state, inward looking attitudes of the American people.

Wow, that turned into a very long post. For the record, I am not anti American. I support many of the American policies. It is because if the fact that I care that I make these comments.

 

Carbon Tax is a hoax. Read more at carbonhoax.org.nz and spread the word.

Actually King I think you

Tim S's picture

Actually King I think you missed Volkov's point, which is that affordability is not the most important criteria about where to live, or at most it's only one of several.

The most important thing about a place is the sense of life in its culture. The greatest qualities of the US for instance are its entrepreneurialism, individualism and benevolence. The low-ish tax levels are a happy upside of these qualities but not the fundamental.

Many countries (especially in Europe and South America) have great sense-of-life cultures but crap politics. Most people live on happily in spite of the their governments deal out to them. And since governments everywhere are generally crap, living in a place with a great sense of life may just make it all worth it.

I'm A Union Man

Ashley's picture

I worked for a company whose field staff are slowly canvassing the entire continental 49, on foot, going door to door. So when I say "you'd have to pay me to go there," I mean it quite literally. I did go to Hawaii just for fun. Have yet to visit Alaska.

The support for trade unions is indeed astounding. I am no stranger to trade unions, my father was a member of one (Paper Makers) and I can remember all the drama with strikes, contract negotiations. He seemed to have mixed feelings about it, from what I recall. But I know that the paper mill was essentially the only big industry in my town and that you couldn't get a job there if you weren't union.

But all that is nothing compared to the fanatic union fervor of Philly! Labor unions RUN this city. I'm sure you can google Philadelphia unions and get dozens of horror stories. They drive business AWAY from the city with their ridiculous procedures and demands.

A few years ago, I had a roommate who worked on the Howard Dean for President campaign...I think most people will know who he was, but if not, he was a supporter of and initially endorsed by labor unions. In any case, there was a group of Deanies sitting in our living room trying to plan one a Dean appearance in Philadelphia. They were going over the contracts for the space they were renting (and the unionized labor they were required to hire to run the event). I kept hearing comments like "Why do we have to have 5 guys for this? We only need 2!" and "Why can't the same guy set up the equipment *and* break it down!? That's ridiculous!" "We don't have this kind of money!" It amazed me how they had a vision of themselves as supporting this man who was going to save the country and in reality didn't even have a basic understanding of how their actions were perpetuating the very things they were complaining about.

There was a brief and shining moment when I thought the unions might lose one here, when MTV was preparing to host a "Real World" house in Philadelphia. After months of the mayor and everyone else saying this was going to be our chance to shine for a whole generation of young people who might move here and revitalize our city, the unions threatened to strike every day and ruin the whole thing after the MTV people said they weren't going to use union labor in the project. Sadly, the loss of MTV The Real World was the one thing that people here really cared about, and raised a huge commotion. In the end, I think MTV compromised in some way and probably used the unions, but it was the only time I can recall (in the 7 years I have lived here) a public outcry about the insanity of the trade unions.

Most people here (that have decent jobs) are from union families, and they don't complain about them. They see them as a benevolent big brother who protects and takes care of them.

"The single journey through consciousness should be participated in as fully as possible by the individual no matter how dangerous or cruel or terror-filled that experience may be."

A

Elijah Lineberry's picture

splendid post Ashley!

I am always astounded at the support and credibility of Trades Unions in America Shocked despite them being the greatest destroyers of wealth since the bubonic plague!

If I were to live in America I think somewhere like Idaho would be lovely Laughing out loud ...nice people Smiling ..(I once met a couple of cute students with great legs in Idaho Falls Sticking out tongue lol)

Impressed you have been to 49 States! well done.

I HEART USA

Ashley's picture

Dude, the reason it's expensive to live in the states near the coasts are that they are awesome places to live. Many places in America are much cheaper to live, but there aren't a lot of them I would enjoy living in. I say that having lived in the middle and having visited all but one of the 50 US states. I am not saying that noone should enjoy other (boring) states, just that I wouldn't and living nearer to the edge is worth any amount of money to me. The East Coast is fast-paced and exciting, taxes be damned.

Unions are alive and well in Philadelphia and MANY other places in the US and you would do well to note that the people in them are extremely proud of them...they are far from being relegated to the embarrassing past. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying you are jumping the gun a little on pointing the fingers at other countries in that respect.

I am not quite convinced that you are not a troll, or at least jerking our chain a little. I hope you aren't, and that you are really this bright-eyed in love with our country. I love it, too. You seem to be viewing the picture more black and white than I see it. I do think it's the greatest place on earth. I am not sure I'd go so far as to say I'd never want to live anywhere else. I don't think there is any country in the world where you are guaranteed to go through your entire life unmolested or unaffected by something ridiculous. But there are many places which hold tremendous allure to a person for their own reason, whether it is food, architecture, natural beauty, sport - something. And people will, and ought to, risk some inconvenience to experience something they have a passion for. Tend a vineyard in France, paint in Greece, handspin wool in New Zealand if you want. They might not be the US, but I think a good life could be lived in any of those places.

And regarding having extra money to spend on "toys"...in my experience Americans (this is a massive generalization) may have more disposable income but I'm not sure they get an increased happiness which is commensurate with the extra money...having money is nice, don't get me wrong, I just don't think everyone else sits around missing something they don't have, and they have a perfectly fine life with the money they do have. i.e. maybe they don't go out for dinner and ice cream but maybe they go ride bikes together and are just as emotionally satisfied. I have not noticed a lower quality of life IN PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SIMILAR PROFESSIONAL JOBS as mine in other "western" countries. This is not to say that people who are truly poor are just as happy, clearly this is not the case, in other countries or in America.

"The single journey through consciousness should be participated in as fully as possible by the individual no matter how dangerous or cruel or terror-filled that experience may be."

Things to mull over: 1.

Ashley Chan's picture

Things to mull over:

1. Australia (Queensland & Western Australia): Going through a massive once in a lifetime mining boom, because India and China are industrialising. Basically means even a graduate geologist/engineer/environmental economist starts off on big money, which gives you enough savings to pay for hobbies (rocks or archaeology if you are a geologist), invest in stocks, and/or set up business outside of work. Plus Australian income tax thresholds are relatively high (and thus average tax still RELATIVELY low at < 30% on $100,000 pa). Canada is going through mining boom, but Calgary is too cold and redneck!

2. New Zealand -- no capital gains tax on property or from investing in NZ and top 500 Australian stocks; ~2% annual flat asset tax on all non-NZ/top500Aus stocks. But no good for those with US passports as US citizens have to pay tax on their worldwide income to the IRS, "or else".

3. Jury still out on whether the greenback (US Dollar) will fall by half its value over next decade (and thus effective living standards by up to a half) given that Washington appears to be de facto printing money to fight three wars (Iraq, Taleban, and Iran) and the Federal Reserve continues to bail out major financial institutions and Democrat billionaires from their stupid investments every few years. A number of my American friends are trying to invest as much outside of US Dollar denominated assets as they are comfortable with, because of the threat of currency devaluation/depreciation. One Canadian dollar is now worth more than one US dollar, and odds-on one Australian dollar wll be worth more than one US Dollar by the end of the decade.

Yes, but...

Callum McPetrie's picture

"but aren't YOU guys supposed to be different in your thinking than that?
Absolutely, but I'm looking for answers to my questions from an Objectivist viewpoint.

Oh

Elijah Lineberry's picture

right, well I am sure you will enjoy your travels. Smiling

One thing you should keep in mind is that the places you are visiting are not America..."you are not in Ohio anymore"...and as such the locals may not live like you do in Ohio. Get used to the idea.

This should not be viewed as some sort of deficiency, but an opportunity to see how others live...and perhaps learn something, and make comparisons with your own way of life.

An open mind is very important...and be prepared to witness some things you consider bizarre at first glance.

I have not been to Japan, but Britain and Italy are splendid places! I am sure you will have a lovely time! Laughing out loud ...and if you are planning to visit the Orient, Singapore (where I have lived) and elsewhere is worth a look. Smiling

(As a word to the wise, there is nothing worse than an 'American Abroad' asking directions to the nearest Mcdonalds and criticising societies several hundred years older than the US, and indicating Branson, Missouri or Las Vegas to be some sort of "Cultural Apex"...just go with the flow)

Oh, if you want to visit somewhere nice Sticking out tongue ...a couple of weeks in New Zealand is a mere plane trip away Sticking out tongue

No, Mr. Lineberry, I have

KingRandor82's picture

No, Mr. Lineberry, I have never been out of the country. I'd like to, someday- I'd like to visit Japan and the United Kingdom- MAYBE Italy.

Like I said, that's why I'm ASKING- cause I don' know what it's like living in other countries, and what the appeal really is, in comparison.

Mr. McPetrie, I guess it really depends where you live. When it comes to inner cities, yeah- I could see that. If you live in farm areas or suburbia, probably not as much.

And while I guess I can see the 70%, our lower restrictions also give us wiggle room to work around them quite a bit. Many of the richest people here have offshore accounts, stuff like that to avoid getting hit REALLY hard with taxes, and whathaveyou.

One them to remind everyone though- we also occasionally have politicans that do a lot of DEregulating. I only hear of further regulating overseas. That's ANOTHER reason I don't understand the appeal of living in another country.

Don't many-most of the countries in this world( and this is a blind, very rough guess here) virtually border between socialism and communism? And consider- did Ayn Rand migrate to AMERICA, or some OTHER country when she jumped ship from the Soviet Union? Smiling

One other thing to remember- part of me can understand why many of the inhabitants do stay...sadly, their political mindsets aren't too much different from the psycho Commie politicians they put in power- but aren't YOU guys supposed to be different in your thinking than that?

Quote from a former co-worker

Landon Erp's picture

I used to work with a guy named Leroy who lived in Gary IN, as opposed to Indy(...GO COLTS) where I live now and where I met him.

He always said the murder rate was pretty high in Gary but he made the point that

"90% of the time you did something to get killed there but there is still that 10%."

Meaning basically that in a lot of areas of the U.S. if you're not screwing people over in big money drug deals or involved in a turf war... you're safe.

---Landon

Inking is sexy.

http://www.angelfire.com/comics/wickedlakes

Ahem...

Callum McPetrie's picture

"Are you a closet collectivist? gosh!"

Yes.

Why

Elijah Lineberry's picture

on Earth are you going to University!?!?! Shocked

Are you a closet collectivist? gosh!

America...

Callum McPetrie's picture

America is probably the country I'll end up living in some day, thanks to the opportunities and going-ons there. But, if Europe were to be as Capitalist as the US, I'd be off there immediately out of varsity.

Also, KingRandor, can you explain to me America's high crime, especially in murders? I really don't want to live in a place with more than 5-10 murders per 100,000-America has plently of places with more murders than that.

BTW, I saw on a US Libertarian site that, with taxes, regulations, compliance costs, etc, the US govt takes about 70% of the average American's income. What's up with THAT!?

King

Elijah Lineberry's picture

let me ask you a very simple question...have you ever lived in another country?

Thank you Volkov...

KingRandor82's picture

For your absolutely stunning ignorance regarding my point. I hate to sound like an ass about it, but right there, you proved me point. See, people in America can afford to buy their kids toys because the Capitalism we DO have, here, gives us the income to do it. And despite what is taken from our paychecks every week/two weeks, depending on where you go, property taxes are usually low enough that rent is nicely affordable- as well as most other expensives, so we have disposable income. Plus bear in mind that with the lower levels of taxation and government red tape, it's usually much easier to get a job AND/OR start up your own business.

Let me actually give you an example, regarding toys, for instance( in regards to disposable income)- I was recently chatting on a thread on a toy forum with some Canadian toy collectors. First off, not only do they have to pay $6 more for the same figure that we have to, BUT, there's a steep sales tax on TOP of that. And despite that scam you guys call "free health care", if things are just THAT expensive in other countries due to the heavy regulations and taxes, I just don't understand how you can afford much of ANYTHING? I mean- ICE CREAM is considered a LUXURY for the French...and I KNOW that cause I studied French for one year in high school. Now, other than maybe at Coldstone Creamery here in the USA, ice cream is nowhere NEAR as expensive here as it is there. So I really don't understand, aside from the history( as NickOtani pointed out; yer a good man, Otani- don't ever let anyone tell you any different), what the appeal of living in other countries is. Now, as for certain states here in the US.....

I used to live in New Jersey, and I assure you it was a socialistic nightmare- property taxes thru the roof and constantly rising, everything so expensive, and most people- even those who had EXCELLENT paying jobs had to get a second job to pay the bills- some even had a THIRD job. There's currently a poll I read about, on drudgereport.com, stating that half of the state's citizens want out. I'm glad I already am out- and thankfully not to one of the states the other Jerseyans wanted to go to...reason being, they can't ruin Ohio for ME Smiling

I now live out in Ohio, and absolutely love it. Just remember though- most of the US isn't as highly taxed as you speak. You mention NYC, California, NJ, Massachusetts, Washington- there are FIFTY states in this country, and most of those are WAY below the tax bracket of those states.

I barely understand why anyone would want to live in NYC, California, NJ, or Massachusetts, due to how expensive it is, let ALONE other countries. So there's your answer.

And um, dinther, yeah....Unions were a big part of the 20th century- not a part we're PROUD of by any stretch of the imagination, but they were there. They're rapidly dying off now....and growing in OTHER countries.

Wait...this freakish power hungry attitude of Civil Servants? Yeah, cause they know they can go somewhere in life and be successful if they put their mind to it cause they live in AMERICA!

Civil servants

Prima Donna's picture

Um, the civil servants in Europe are pretty damn power hungry, too -- perhaps even more so than in the US -- and even pettier.

I was just on a press trip to Italy, and the "inspector" from the EU was there to "oversee" things. He waited until we were completely finished with the journey to make us sit for two hours while he and our guide filled out the "inspection" paperwork -- which practically included a full body cavity search. The paperwork could have easily been completed as we were petting cows and tasting cheese, or eating lunch. Wanker.

Jennifer

-- Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

Doctor Who?

Volkov's picture

King, since when is quality of life and personal freedom measured by how much Doctor Who themed tat you can afford to give to your kids?

Where

Elijah Lineberry's picture

does King get the idea there is high taxation in other parts of the World?!?! Puzzled

If a chap is unfortunate enough to live in New York City they are paying income taxes to the Federal, State and City government of 47% Barf! ...(if they earn a modest income of $350,000 or more)

The same person living in New Zealand, earning the same income...let's say 'Auckland'...would be paying 36% in income taxes.

The answer to the question of how they afford to buy things...taking the NZ example...is "with the 64% they did not pay in taxes!" Sticking out tongue

(All rather simple, really) Eye

This is why many other

dinther's picture

This is why many other countries are better. Although I don't wildly disagree with most of the US policies. In the US there is this freakish power hungry attitude by your civil servants.I experienced it first hand many years ago and still will only travel to Europe via Asia. Not only would I not live in the USA. I won't even want to pass through it. Not for a minute. 

Also your Unions are far too powerful. They should only be allowed to buy fish and chips on ever other Tuesday and that only in odd months during king tide.

 

Carbon Tax is a hoax. Read more at carbonhoax.org.nz and spread the word.

Well thank you for being the

KingRandor82's picture

Well thank you for being the one person who's replied, so far, and hasn't simply bashed me for my question, but provided actual answers.

I still don't totally understand the appeal of living elsewhere, although I guess I understand that things aren't terribly as bad elsewhere as I'd initally been led to believe.

But I would like to know- with all the excess taxation and government red tape in other countries, how do people afford to buy stuff, like toys for their kids, and other things like that? This has always baffled me- and watching Doctor Who( and REALLY getting into it), I keep thinking to myself "with so much of their paychecks taken away by the government every other week or however they do it, how DO these parents afford to buy the merchandise this show is based on for their kids?" I really don't get that.

I also agree.

Prima Donna's picture

(And hello Michael! Great to see you!)

Elijah, you couldn't be more correct. I cringe at the Americans I see while traveling most of the time -- not a clue that there is a world outside of Starbucks, reality TV and US Weekly. We could probably spend a few hours critiquing wardrobes, but let's not waste precious moments. Smiling

I lived and studied in Paris while at university, and have spent a lot of time traveling through Europe -- aside from the socialist everything, those countries feel much more like home to me, particularly Italy. I plan to live there for an extended period as soon as I am able.

Jennifer

-- Food Philosophy. Sensuality. Sass.

A lot of Americans would be

Newberry's picture

A lot of Americans would be well served by spending 6 months travelling through Europe, or the Orient to gain a more Worldly outlook on life.

 Undoubtedly.

Me, I lived on Greek Island for 8 years, and in Holland for 6.

A Dutch friend of mine, a very successful businessman, commented that Californians spend a fortune so that they can live like an average European. He is, of course, correct. Smiling

Michael

 

http://www.MichaelNewberry.com

I

Elijah Lineberry's picture

am impressed, Nick.

It is somewhat uncommon for Americans to live abroad for long periods of time, so pleased you did so.

I think Germany would be a lovely place to live...some of the scenery is wonderful. Switzerland, too!

A lot of Americans would be well served by spending 6 months travelling through Europe, or the Orient to gain a more Worldly outlook on life.

Vietnam and other places

NickOtani's picture

(How on Earth did you end up living in Vietnam?!?!)

This was nothing unique. I was stationed there as an American soldier in 68-69, as were several other Americans and allies. I am a Vietnam veteran.

I lived in Japan as a child, a dependent of my father who was stationed there in the airforce.

When I was in the Army, I was stationed first in Germany, from 66 to 68, when I got sent to Vietnam. I returned to Germany on my own in 69, when I got out of the Army. Still, I worked for the Army in various ways and finally with a Washington state based community college which had a contract with the Department of the Army. This is when I lived in Germany from 75 to 95. During this time, I had TDY assignments all over Germany and as far away as Erzerum, Turkey. This is where I saw people living in mud huts. There were also mosques and muslims and women walking around with their bodies covered in religious garb. Erzerum is very close to the Iranian and Iraqi borders. I actually skiied on Mount Ariat.

I wanted to say I also miss the German bratwurst and brot and driving as fast as I want in some places on the Autobans.

bis bald,

Nick

U.S. citizens are a little

Duncan Bayne's picture

U.S. citizens are a little uptight about that.

Not just U.S. citizens either.

 

---
Buy and wear InfidelGear - 100% of all InfidelGear profit goes to SOLO!

The freest country?

smoovegeek's picture

I think you'll find a lot of the personal and economic freedoms we pompous Americans have historically enjoyed have gone missing a bit recently. In fact, I have been thinking about other places I might want to emigrate to should shit truly begin to hit the fan here. 

Anyone lived in Prague or Tallinn? 

It

Elijah Lineberry's picture

sounds rather nice, Nick Smiling

(How on Earth did you end up living in Vietnam?!?!) Puzzled

Other countries

NickOtani's picture

I lived in Germany for more than twenty years and travelled all around it. It is on the same latitude as the state I grew up in and in which I now live, the state of Washington, and some of the weather conditions are about the same. However, Germany is centrally located in western Europe and close to many other countries. It has the Rhein river running from the North Sea, making it a trade center. This has been both an advantage and disadvatage for Germany's history. Like the in United States, bordering countries have a hard time keeping up with its economy. This causes problems with migrant workers and foreigners coming across the borders, and there is some ethnocentrism. People like Hitler thought they could control some of these problems, but it's not good to piss off countries on both sides. One can get squeezed in the middle during a world war. That's the disadvantage of being centrally located.

Still Germany does have some history that the United States does not have. They have Castles and Cathedrals and Roman ruins from way before the New World was populated by Europeans. It's also a little more populated than some places in the United States, which has wide open prairies where nobody wants to live. It doesn't take long to get places, but one can still find some country side and woods in which to wander. Volksmarches show off the countryside in many quaint villages.

There are swimbads, parks with pools, and beaches where girls are free to sunbathe topless. Most hotels have saunas which are co-ed and sans clothing. U.S. citizens are a little uptight about that.

The many guesthouses are family type places, but they serve beer. When McDonald's was first introduced in German, beer was on tap beside the coke drinks. Some Germans thought Rootbeer was a kind of Beer.

There are vineards which grow grapes for the fine wines. They are generally better than American wines.

Yes, people pay taxes, but everybody has health insurance. There are problems with the welfare system.

It was interesting when Berlin still had the wall and we could see how built up colorful and civilized the capitalistic west was as contrasted with the dirty, dull, and rundown socialistic east.

I've seen socialistic countries and spoken with people who lived in them. They had a hard time adjusting to the west, to working in factories where things get fixed right away instead of waiting for the government to get to them. It's different when private people actually own and control their goods and services. Potatoes don't rot in the ground. People care more.

I've also lived in Japan, Turkey, and Vietnam. And, I've visited Holland and Switzerland and other countries. It's good to know that some people live in mud huts. We take for granted so many things in the United States.

In the United States, there are rich people who live well, but there are also poor people who live in rundown apartments or trailer parks and work in depressing industrial places.

I enjoy living in the United States, but I do sometimes miss the Volksmarches and lifestyle I had in Germany.

bis bald,

Nick

No I didn't say it was- I

KingRandor82's picture

No I didn't say it was- I just said compared to most other countries it is- and most other economic restrictions are far lower too...as well as personal freedom restrictions.

the USA is the most overall free country in the world. I'll say it again- THIS is why I don' understand why people would actually WANT to live elsewhere. Call me a schmuck for saying it, but that's why I want you to enlighten me Smiling

See, when I think of other countries, I think of the majority of European countries, third-world nations, Canada, South America, Asia, etc..

I know that in Canada, everything costs more due to excess taxation and government red tape...not to mention their "free" health care.

Knowing what I know about England, as much as I love the culture, I don't understand how they even have an economy where they can afford to buy frivolities.

Have

Elijah Lineberry's picture

you been to any other countries?

When you talk about 'severe' economic and personal freedoms...which countries do you mean? Puzzled

Also, if you think taxation in America is low Sticking out tongue you are seriously mistaken Sticking out tongue

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