If we don't have an educated population that understands philosophy, civics, history, economics, accounting, and logic....well, you know.

Anyway, we already leave all the important tasks to the government, mainly because we figure if they can educate us, they can certainly run our healthcare system, etc. 

Hopefully, globalization, immigration, and the internet can team up to save the world.  But, they have some stiff competition.

Globalization and immigration. Globalization because the globalized world more effectively punishes statist economic policies. Immigration because in every generation there are millions of people who choose to come here. That's why we get our Ayn Rands, our Andy Groves, our Albert Einsteins and many others. Many of today's best are from India and China. The newcomers also dilute today's Christian fundamaentalist trends.

Jim

The KISS army takeover of America is inevitable - spelling out a potential "bogan" takeover of New Zealand (the rough modern equivalent of the KISS army in NZ) - I need to change my vote as well. Good thing I checked back on this poll!

I don't know what the over/under is on America's race to deadlocksville. Neither of the major parties has a decisive advantage over the other, and the also rans seem at least half a generation away from real traction -- probably longer. Indeed, if the Politburo had had a Communist Party A and a Communist Party B,
and switched them in power from time to time, we would still have a very
powerful Soviet Union today.

I guess I'll take the over and hope for the best.

__________________________________________

I haven't lost my mind ... I sold it on eBay!!

Other: A triumph of hope over experience, I suppose.

Things could be better and I think they're going to get that way. The key lies in this thing we call the Internet.

EDIT: Wouldn't Peikoff's endorsement of John Kerry in 2004, specifically for non-religious reasons, kind of put paid to the first option?

...because I want to change my vote and put in a new option. I think the most likely is a takeover by the KISS army, and we would evolve into a culture where everyone wears face paint, plays heavy/glam metal, and walks around in dominatrix attire (leather, rubber, high boots, etc).

Scott DeSalvo

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!

It appears to be malfunctioning. I only see 9 registered votes.

Wm

As of just now, this is the *fourth* time I've been asked to vote in this poll. It's malfunctioning.

Does this mean I get four votes in the 2008 election?

would be a better handle, Scott.

I was starting to get disappointed with the response to my handle.  I obviously am interested in many things, just not manipulating people for my own personal gain, abusing my authority, or receiving ill-gotten gains. 

Oh. Yes, you're right - dumb of me, as despite my below post I 'was' putting the wrong meaning to it. Guess we have to guess where PD is coming from then, if anywhere?

Back to the dolt's cave for a time out

.... actually means non-partisan, unbiased. Not to be confused, as modern dolts confuse it, with "uninterested [who gives a shit?]," which the modern young are, universally.

Hey, start a new thread and go for it. Should be interesting.

And I don't mean to be on your case all the time, but I've just realised why. That dumb handle you've assumed? Are you personally disinterested about your life in general, or just Objectivism? Passionate about nothing?

I think the culture debate should start on a new thread.  Yes, I am from the West, but culture is a much more complicated issue than East v. West. 

Relativism is a problem because it gives equal value to everything. Cannibalism is just as valid a lifestyle as non-cannibalism. I don't think that all cultures are equal...

In this context, I misunderstood you. When you state yourself like this, I have no point of disagreement.

... and I don't think that the culture that I live in is superior to all others.

I view 'my culture', as far as this goes, to equate to Western philosophic thought, and mirroring some of the other threads, to the ethos espoused by Jefferson, et al, minus the Christianity (and against which I view socialism as anathema, by the way), thus I do view that as vastly superior to any other culture I can think of currently existing. Indeed, part of the modern problem is that we in the West have been too weak, and too scared, to stand up and say this, thus setting a standard of values in the sand, and so against which those values are now being swept from under us (chiefly at the hands of the political Left, who have bought into the notion of multiculturalism with all of the family silver). So, out of interest, what other cultures are you thinking of that are 'superior' to the West (and I am assuming, from your photo, that you live in the West).

Could you help me understand the point about multiculturalism?

Relativism is a problem because it gives equal value to everything.  Cannibalism is just as valid a lifestyle as non-cannibalism.  I don't think that all cultures are equal, and I don't think that the culture that I live in is superior to all others.  Does this help?

It's called lysergic acid diethylamide, Lindsay.

I understand your point about multiculturalism but I think all cultures have good and bad elements. Relativism is obviously a problem.

Then no, I don't think you do understand what he was saying about multiculturalism. And what does relativism is obviously a problem mean in this context?

I'm sure you are right about my time-line, I'm a bit pessimistic after living through the last 8 years in this country. 

I understand your point about multiculturalism but I think all cultures have good and bad elements.  Relativism is obviously a problem.

The corporations are our only hope against a federal heathcare system, unless a few get smart and Haliburton-up the health care system. Sure, they'll bankrupt the govt but they'll become fabulously wealthy in the process.

The health care industry has spent a bunch of money buying Hillary for that exact purpose.  Look at the medicare prescription plan, they are addicted.  This dangerous trend will continue with more and more industries until the country is completely bankrupt.  It is a free-for-all that can ruin the country by 2012.  At some point corporations would be stupid not to participate in the pillaging.  It is a corporatized version of the same treasury thievery that happens over and over again in the third world. In other words: we are getting a federal health-care system.

...but your time horizon of 2012 is much too short.

This country is essentially lost because of education--specifically, education in the primacy of multiculturalism (all cultures are equal except ours) and socialism (making money is evil, and each person deserves an entitlement according to need). The few home schooled may have some good ideas in their head. Student in alot of other schools can barely read, write and do basic math, and certainly cannot think. This is a receipe for easily led masses.

The corporations are our only hope against a federal heathcare system, unless a few get smart and Haliburton-up the health care system. Sure, they'll bankrupt the govt but they'll become fabulously wealthy in the process.

Our leaders believe in large government and government regulation of everything and/or overtly Socialist policies. Reparations, government programs for everything, unapologetic redistribution of wealth.

Money matters. Men of integrity will never have enough to combat those without integrity. And those without integrity are uninterested in anything but their own wealth and power. So, they will continue to take us down the road of back room dealing and socialization/increased taxes, and therefore, more money in government to siphon off to themselves and cronies.

The only hope is for a compromise, and it will be a temporary fix, and will not solve the problem. The culture that made America work is being destroyed. Once it is destroyed, we will never have popular support to revert to a true constitutional republic/free market capitalist nation.

Those with money and power are not going to go away. A flea sucks a dog's blood until you kill it. These parasites have all the money, power, and guns. WHY would they ever give up their ill-goptten gain voluntarily?

The future is a slow downward spiral until men of good conscience, integrity, and sense start a new country.

Ron Paul at least identifies some of the issues. The rest debate about trifles while ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room--because that 800 pound gorilla is what got them in the room.

Scott DeSalvo

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!

Ross, your point is?

"I'm kinda fuzzy on the future beyond 2012 or so, but it wont be pretty."

Hahahahaha! Fuck me dead, it's priceless. The whole thing. A silly picture would have made it perfect. Whoever said you don't have a sense of humor should be shot. In fact, I will. BANG!!. The bastard's dead.

It's funnier than: two cannibals are sitting around the campfire eating a clown. One cannibal turns to the other and says, "Does this taste funny to you?"

I may piss myself. Oops, I have. What was that old Andy Williams song? Yellow River, Yellow River...

hits the jolly old nail on the head!

"It is multiculturalism and Socialism. No more deadlier combination exists for a free nation"

Goodness knows who had the bright idea to invent either...let alone combine them..but, gosh, we 'normal' people pay a high price for them

"I create nothing. I own"

Multiculturalism is a good thing.  Exposure to other cultures mitigates conflicts between cultures.

Disclaimer:

The only hope for the US is if the Ron Paul Revolution continues after the primaries.  Young Americans that understand the reality of our situation have been united by the hope that Ron Paul could win the primary.  They have been educating themselves, friends and families.  These people are motivated and very active.  If they can continue a revolution even after their candidate loses, they can turn this country around within the next 15-20 years.  Education is the key.

However, the odds are stacked heavily in the fascists' favor.  They are currently in control of the only two parties, the news networks consider them inevitable, and the majority of the American people are already convinced that fascism is the best form of government. 

The actual future:

The war on terrorism will continue to be perpetrated on the third world costing the treasury tremendous sums because the more it costs the more the corporations will profit.

Nationalized health insurance will be an incredible drain on the treasury because the more it costs the more the corporations will profit.

The cost of health care will continue to rise 25% a year because the more it costs the more the corporations will profit.

The federal government will continue to assert greater control over education thus education will continue to deteriorate.  The worse the schools do, the more control the federal government will exert. 

The value of the dollar will continue to fall due to uncontrolled spending.  Sovereign funds will stem the decline temporarily but eventually the dollar will crash justifying the increased regulation of the economy.  Rationing will ensue. 

I'm kinda fuzzy on the future beyond 2012 or so, but it wont be pretty. 

The brain drain over the next 10 years will be incredible.  The first to leave will be the superwealthy, followed by well to do boomers, then the well educated professionals. 

The silver lining: several first world countries will use the example of the fall of the US to avoid fascism and U.S. expatriots will help to educate their adopted homes to the dangers of socialism. 

It is multiculturalism and Socialism. No more deadlier combination exists for a free nation.

Scott DeSalvo

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!

...you're probably correct, America will continue it's slow decline. As will other countries. But, when push comes to shove, if you can't make a stand there, where the hell *are* you going to make it?

To add my cynical view that the United Police States will continue its idealogical drift of the last 170 years away from Jeffersonian liberty to the ever-less-sanitzed and ever-more-obvoius mobocracy as predicted by Rand herslef. More of the same. And I'm not just saying that because Rudy reminds me a little too much of Tony Soprano.

Ross, if the United States is going to be providing humanity's last stand, humanity doesn't stand much of a chance. Like other American SOLO-ists who have commented on this poll, I hope I'm wrong. And the 50-meter tsuamis hitting the eastern seaboard of the US are being caused by Jefferson spinning in his grave...

Does 'socialist, non-theocratic yet Christian dominated bankrupt police state' fit in with 'marshmallow mobocracy' or 'other'?

Global Warming.

Idaho, Montana and Wyoming will be buried beneath 1,000 cubic kilometres of molten magma. Most of the rest of the Western and Central U.S. will be covered by a thick layer of volcanic ash. The Eastern seaboard will be inundated by 50 metre high tidal waves. All it would take to achieve this is the detonation of two well-placed nuclear devices - one in the Yellowstone Caldera and one beneath the Teide slopes in Tenerife.

I trust the Department of Homeland Security is well aware of al-Qaeda's latest plans.

I chose other, as the forced choice was obvious.

America is the sole power in the world, with vast military resources, the biggest and richest economy, and a huge, well-educated population.

I would say that the best prediction would combine a little bit of both 'a' and 'b,' with more 'b' by far. If the Democrats win, they will have either Clinton or Obama on top, both inclined to follow the mob (meaning American public opinion). If the Republicans win it will be either Guiliani or Romney, both inclined to follow the mob (public opinion).

All four are sincere believers in invisible spirits guiding humans (Methodist, Baptist, Mormon, Catholic) and all have an agenda that differs little except for war. By the time the next inauguration, the war in Iraq will have turned one corner or another, with American presence deeply entrenched and the foreign policy set by the Washington foreign policy mob. The margin to manouver will be small for any president.

With the experience of America in the Second World War to guide us, once the beast is awoken, the enemy will be vanquished. If Hillary/Rudy/Barack/Mitt are like the presidents before them, they will follow the line set by the military and do their best to work within the margins of what is possible.

I think both Clinton and Obama would unleash the warmonger within once in office, and that Romney and Giuliani would do the same in the opposite direction, toward the 'centre.'

Has anyone read Mitt Romney's speech on faith last week?

WSS

may care to read my posts on the 'Kosovo - Why We Should Oppose Independence' thread, about this sort of thing in Britain.

"I create nothing. I own"

Is this the explanation for your reversion to over-solicitude for "innocent" Muslims? Not to seem like those fascists in Britain?

Just remember Jefferson's words: “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility to every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” EVERY form. Including fascism and Islamofascism. Hostility means just that. Not timorous appeasing.

While the latter is waging Jihad I am all in favour of blocking further Muslim immigration and packing troublemakers off to one of their pin-up tyrannies. If I were governing in Britain I'd be booting the bastards out left, right and centre. Banning them from flying, except on a one-way ticket out, has a lot going for it too.

Linz

Off-the-cuff, I think the failure of mainstream parties to address the issue of Islamism (the takeover of secular Government by Islam through democratic means, strengthened by a fear of violent jihad) will lead to the issue being adopted by what are currently (& for good reason) minority parties: the fascists.

Take a look at the UK for example, where there is growing support for the BNP. It's exactly the same as was the case in the first half of the 20th Century; fascism grew in strength because there was a credible threat to Western society (Communism) and the mainstream politicians either didn't want to address the issue, or worse, were part of the problem themselves.

The growth of fascism has the potential to be even more of a threat to the West than the imposition of Islamic law.

---
Buy and wear InfidelGear - 100% of all InfidelGear profit goes to SOLO!

I obviously suggested the poll out of frivolity. But that's about the fifth time you mentioned me in connection with "KASSless" and "De-Kassed" and I have no idea what you are on about.

Neither have I. Just teasin', I expect!

Please take no notice of this post.

Or any of my posts ever.

I obviously suggested the poll out of frivolity. But that's about the fifth time you mentioned me in connection with "KASSless" and "De-Kassed" and I have no idea what you are on about.

WILL HE?

... will be fine.

Won't he?

And, gee, Iran stopped it's nuclear program in 2003 -- we all know that that was the make-or-break issue (!) -- so, who wanted to bomb those guys anyway?

Dubya.

Not Dem-scum.

So ...

Vote Dem-scum, across the board. Way to gooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Well, how's Rudy doing these days? Will the real Christian please stand up? Even getting Pat Robertson's support (and, wow, that was crucial, wasn't it?) seems not to be helping... Meanwhile, Mitt reassures us all that faith is a prerequisite for liberty.

And, gee, Iran stopped it's nuclear program in 2003 -- we all know that that was the make-or-break issue (!) -- so, who wanted to bomb those guys anyway?

I tried, dear Linz, to explain what was wrong with your version of "KASS" or "activism" at one point here. Unfortunately, my Brandeis example and the import of my argument went right over your head.

That's 'cos I'm really really dumb. Sorry about that. Can't be helped. But now that I know you nailed what's wrong with my version of KASS I'll go back and try very hard to understand.

Since you were more concerned with pep rally palaver than logical argument, I dropped it. By all means, I'm armed and ready anytime you are.

Well, you go first, since I'm not entirely sure what we're arguing about. I advocate "horses for courses." My "version of KASS" as you call it is a course for a certain type of horse.

Linz

Oh, and there's an element of frivolity with the poll. Sorry about that, too. I'll include a Parental Guidance Advisory next time.

The changing the world with "smiles" perhaps the most ridiculous of all--and that's saying a lot given the first two. I voted "other", of course.

I tried, dear Linz, to explain what was wrong with your version of "KASS" or "activism" at one point here. Unfortunately, my Brandeis example and the import of my argument went right over your head. Since you were more concerned with pep rally palaver than logical argument, I dropped it. By all means, I'm armed and ready anytime you are.

.... the theocrats are making a surge that would make General Petraeus proud.

Marshmallow still odds-on favourite, though.

Islamofascists looking rather sickly.

No takers *at all* for pollyanna KASSless? I'm distraught! Come on, Moeller, show yourself like a man, man!

As things stand, theocracy, since it's ideas, not the marshmallows, which determine history.

Reagan led an upswing with policies but primarily IDEAS--the idea that we should be PROUD to be American, and that WE are the GOOD GUYS.

With the problems and outright criminality and abuse of power in the Bush admin, it is likely we are going to end up with an appeasing Dem America-apologist in the White House. The economy may improve, but this will NOT mark an upswing in the things Objectivists value.

We may have hope if we get a Republican reformer in. Most of the Republicans are as ensconced in political favors as Bush, so the dastardly actions will continue.

Change is in the wind, but not the good kind. I hope I'm wrong.

Scott DeSalvo

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!

... based on current projections.

...a stupid poll. Boo.

America will be humanity's last stand. It's in the soil.

ticked 'Other' because I feel very positively for America.

There are 1001 opportunities starting to emerge, and America is heading towards an 'upswing' similar to the upswings due to the Reagan Era, or Eisenhower Era or Gilded Age, which all followed a period in which the Country was unfocused and dwelling on varying degrees of nonsense.

(I am going to get shot for saying this) ...but America just 'feels' as if a change is in the wind.

A lot of money to be made ...a la the Reagan, Eisenhower and Gilded Age periods