Evasion Sandi. If your great grandfather was a Fascist, a Communist, would you want to be judged by him?

Do you, Sandi, want to be judged on the politics and philosophies of your blood relatives?

Absolutely, somewhere along the line a family matriarch sought a license to vote. My grandmother's family sought freedom and fled Prussia/Poland. My grandfather fought and defended freedom.

I can not think of better politics or philosophy than the pursuit of and vigilance of freedom.

At the heart of this is campaigning by smear.

Do you, Sandi, want to be judged on the politics and philosophies of your blood relatives?

I don't deny on some points that relate to the person of Obama, where you stick to Obama, some worthwhile points are made in your scatter gun hit and miss method, but the price is too high, for you are working this from within a racist framework of pure smear. You are tying the life of an individual to a determininstic path based on blood relation, and denying that individual the autonomy of an independent mind.

Not good enough.

What does Obama believe: that's the start and end of it.
-Continued.

"The conduct and background of Barack Hussein Obama, over a period of years, raise alarming doubts as to the nature of the man and his loyalty to the United States and, more broadly, to Western Civilization. (read it all)

It’s not merely Obama’s refusal to wear an American flag pin. Nor is it his wife’s ridiculous comments that the success of her husband’s campaign allowed her to be proud of America for the first time in her life.....

....We have cause for concern. We are now faced with the very real prospect of a President whose worldview has been shaped by some kind of bizarre Islamo-Communist perspective so bizarre and parodic that, under ordinary circumstances, Michael Savage would reject it as extreme."

Thus, what Obama's father, uncle, cousin, whatever, think, is irrelevant, and to create these spurious linkages on a hit and run basis is just cheap smear.

What does Obama believe: that's the start and end of it.

Obama's church The United Church of Christ.

Rev. J. Bennett Guess – Director of communications at the UCC Church

Listen to a communication from Rev. J. Bennett Guess

"We put Mandela in prison in support of apartheid for a whole 27 years. We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in god.

We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians"

We do not care if poor black and brown children can not read ….more homeless than anywhere else in the world

Did I hear him accuse the US government of turning the people "against Castro"?

Yes that can't be such a good thing because Obama is busting his arse to visit Castro

"Senator Barack Obama said the United States should play a more direct role in seeking talks with leaders in countries such as Iran, North Korea, Syria and Cuba.

Obama has said he would meet with all of those leaders without preconditions during his first year in office."

It is reported that communism is the dish of the day for the Obama family

Meanwhile, lets go back to Obama's church.

"The UCC was racist because of its long-stated church motto: "Unashamedly Black"

Finally, we can at least listen to a voice of reason: (JTF) Jewish Task Force speaking out at John McCain's denouncement of the name Hussein, as in Barack Hussein Obama. John McCain insists that Barack Hussein must be called Senator Obama.

Force
“That kind of behaviour of sucking up to black extremists, black racists and black anti-Semites, all of which Barack Obama represents, he is a black racist, he is a black extremist and he is a black anti-Semite.

Sucking up to these people, sucking up to this and this behaviour by McCain and other suck up Republicans, is precisely why we are in this terrible situation today.

This is not the way to beat Barack Hussein Obama, if you are going to suck up to him and say he is so honourable, so great, so wonderful and not mention the fact that he hates this country, that he said “he will never wear that pin” (American flag pin), he refused to salute the flag during the “star spangled banner” and his wife said that she is proud of her country for the first time in her life because it is about to elect a black muslim president.

Before then she was never proud of the country because she hates the country to. This is someone who is endorsed by Jess Jackson . Congressman Jessie Jackson Jr is his national campaign co-chairman – another America hater, white hater, Jew hater……….

There is a silent majority in America that actually wants politically incorrect truth to be told for a change, that is sick and tired of this politically correct strait jacket censorship that we have been given in this country.

Sucking up to these types of people is not the answer. The answer is to confront them honestly and tell the truth. And if you do that, there is a silent majority of American people that will respond.“

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:37:04 -0500

From: ahmad.sean.khan

To: [removed]
Subject: This is Ahmad S. Khan (Volunteering for Barack Obama)
Assalam Alaik-kum,
Thanks so much for volunteering to help Senator Barack Obama turn out the Muslim vote inshalla. On Friday March 29th we want to have Muslim volunteers pray at the Mosques during Juma at around 12:45. After prayer when people are socializing outside we want to have the volunteer pass out Obama civil rights literature, faith based literature, general literature, stickers and bumper stickers. In addition we want the volunteers to emphasize that the election is the following Tuesday and encourage them to vote. That way we can reach every Muslim that went to Mosque the Friday before the election inshalla. Attached is a list of every Mosque in Columbus, if we have missed one please let me know ASAP. In addition if there is a particular Mosque you would prefer to attend Juma at and volunteer let me know.
To accomplish this we need to have a training/meeting and have volunteers pick up the necessary materials before volunteers go to the Mosques. We will be having a training/meeting at 9:30 A.M on March 29th at the Obama campus office 2240 N. High Street Columbus Ohio 43201. I will be providing everyone with more information as we get closer to Friday. Please feel free to contact me through email, or call me at 352-874-1195. If my phone is not on please leave me a voice mail with you number and I will get back to you right away. Also please feel free to pass this on to any brothers or sisters who support Senator Obama and would not mind volunteering for just half a day. Thanks again for everything.
Sincerely
Ahmad S. Khan

"Sandi does it, which is always in the nature of a smear and the constant casting of aspersions"

Another aspersion for you

"Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated, Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”"

(translation of call-prayer)

“Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest. Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest. I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but Allah. I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but Allah. I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. Hasten to the Prayer, hasten to the Prayer. Hasten to real success, hasten to real success. Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest. There is none worthy of worship but Allah.”

I fully answer the main point of your post below, but important business first.

In other words, you have nothing but your prejudice.

Ah,prejudice. Yes, lets get back to that and see if we can finally get Sandi to honourably pin herself down to some answers:

Sandi - was the murder of 8000 men and boys in this massacre justified by the fact they may (or may not) have been Muslim? Is genocide justified as a 'Final Solution' to the 'Muslim problem'? Yes or no?

And, in the face of Sandi's statement to me regarding the Srebrenica 'massacre'/ethnic cleansing that: You stubbornly refuse to recognise the fact that I refute that this massacre occurred. Can I have the rationale for such a heinous denial of the facts of reality please. Exactly why, in your own words, not referencing the entire Internet, was this not a massacre based solely on ethnic cleansing? Please? Fundamentalist clarity is required here.

It's perfectly legitimate to point out the relationship between Obama and Odinga, in fact, it's necessary to do so.

Not in the way Sandi does it, which is always in the nature of a smear and the constant casting of aspersions. Again, if my father ran this country, then we would be in deep do-do, as we would be living in a Christian Theocracy. However, if I was running the show, it would be a Libertarian State. You would not recognise Dad's Kingdom on Earth compared to the state of freedom I would want to be living in. Virtually zero commonality, yet you will be able to photograph us all having a pleasant lunch over the weekend, and could load this to the Internet as proof I had Fundamentalist Christian leanings, shock, horror.

Thus, what Obama's father, uncle, cousin, whatever, think, is irrelevant, and to create these spurious linkages on a hit and run basis is just cheap smear. What does Obama believe: that's the start and end of it.

Richard W, you have so far avoided answering my question: do you want to be judged on the politics and philosophies of your parents, your aunts and uncles, your cousins? When you figure out the answer to that, then you will have figured out my attack on this smear campaign. Even the wily old Hillary has seen the sense to distance herself from this sort of dishonourable tactic. And if you're about to use the media as back up for some sort of morality that you're promoting here, then you better have a serious think about that: the BBC can't even run a straight game show or competition.

What does Obama believe: that's the start and end of it.

Of course, but you can't analyse what you're not aware of. It's perfectly legitimate to point out the relationship between Obama and Odinga, in fact, it's necessary to do so.

oh to hell with it.

In other words, you have nothing but your prejudice.

Look, does Obama ever say in a speech, a book, anywhere that he is a practicising Muslim? If so, given I find that to be a repugnant philosophy (if we can call it that), then that would for me, be another mark against him, one of many that I have gleaned from what he has said on the campaign. But, to slip sideways for just a minute, as I am going out for lunch with my family this Sunday: if my father ran this country, then we would be in deep do-do, as we would be living in a Christian Theocracy. However, if I was running the show, it would be a Libertarian State. You would not recognise Dad's Kingdom on Earth compared to the state of freedom I would want to be living in. Virtually zero commonality. Thus, what Obama's father, uncle, cousin, whatever, think, is irrelevant, and to create these spurious linkages on a hit and run basis is just cheap smear. What does Obama believe: that's the start and end of it.

Good night everybody.

OH GOD I GIVE UP.

It's like arguing with a brick. Of course I know it was from the BBC, but who was it ... oh to hell with it.

I note you decided it was better taste to at least stop arguing the finer points of genocide. A clever move at last.

Tomorrow: I've been stuffing tax into my brain and I'm manky and tired ...

How exactly does pointing to the relationship between Obama, and Odinga, mean bigotry?

In a word, context, again, as in, just about every other one of Sandi's posts. Or, to be precise about this, Sandi said, in that innuendoistic way of hers (touch the side of the nose, wink, wink, we all know what this means): "Mr Odinga told the BBC's World Today that Senator Obama's father was his maternal uncle."

I asked exactly how does pointing to the relationship between Obama and Odinga equate to bigotry? I didn't ask what your prejudices are. I want a concrete connection, not your imaginings of a nod, nod, wink, wink. The sentence you attribute to Sandi wasn't even said by her. It was the opening words of the BBC news report that she linked to.

How exactly does pointing to the relationship between Obama, and Odinga, mean bigotry?

In a word, context, again, as in, just about every other one of Sandi's posts. Or, to be precise about this, Sandi said, in that innuendoistic way of hers (touch the side of the nose, wink, wink, we all know what this means): "Mr Odinga told the BBC's World Today that Senator Obama's father was his maternal uncle."

Thus simply confronting us with this fact, obviously which she thinks highly relevant: but what do we have here? Simply the 'wink, wink, you know, black men = Muslim = Jihadists,' fact of the blood relationship. So, in response, I said:

So now we judge a man by whom he is related to? I can tell you now, I'm very certainly not my father, because, you see, I have my own rational mind; and I love my dad, but philosophically he's a Christian cave man. Or to go one removed again, to judge me by my uncle, or my uncle by me, would be to insult both of us, and of course, get reality completely wrong, again.

Don't you think that Obama's (empty) words and deeds are enough to damn him, and those are the only points of condemnation an Objectivist should be taking heed of?

Ah no, again, of course, they're all black guys = Muslims = Jihadists.

Here we go again ...

Sandi, every night when you go to bed you have to write the word 'individual' one thousand times, then the next day you are not allowed to post until you have read what you've written.

And a question to the entire forum: hands up who wants to be judged on the politics and philosophies of their aunts and uncles? Of their parents?

Obvious answer isn't it. So what are we doing here yet again?

Look, does Obama ever say in a speech, a book, anywhere that he is a practicising Muslim? If so, given I find that to be a repugnant philosophy (if we can call it that), then that would for me, be another mark against him, one of many that I have gleaned from what he has said on the campaign. But, to slip sideways for just a minute, as I am going out for lunch with my family this Sunday: if my father ran this country, then we would be in deep do-do, as we would be living in a Christian Theocracy. However, if I was running the show, it would be a Libertarian State. You would not recognise Dad's Kingdom on Earth compared to the state of freedom I would want to be living in. Virtually zero commonality. Thus, what Obama's father, uncle, cousin, whatever, think, is irrelevant, and to create these spurious linkages on a hit and run basis is just cheap smear. What does Obama believe: that's the start and end of it.

God this is growing tiresome: please buy reading glasses, Richard, and read. You are trying to debate the finer points of ethnic cleansing here: there are NONE.

If I must.

I fully support Sandi who has shown no evidence to me of a desire for genocide.

I asked over and over for just a simple no to the question does genocide justify the Final Solution for the Muslim Problem, and she could never bring herself to say just the one damned word. Well until she does, she stands condemned by not just her silence, but constant complicity for the argument in the affirmative. Read that thread again.

She doesn't deny that the murder of 8000 people is a massacre, she denies that there was 8000 people murdered.

Just kills me this one, like it did, what, 7,999 men and boys based solely on their ethnicity. What's the magic bingo number of dead where we say ethnic cleansing and massacre. One boy killed because of his skin fits the bill!

Again, I repeat Sandi's own words: You stubbornly refuse to recognise the fact that I refute that this massacre occurred.

Damning wouldn't you say. You're defending the utterly indefensible.

Now, how exactly has Sandy treated Obama any other way?

Put the specs on, go to the start of this thread, and read over ...

Interesting. Now, instead of pointing out the irony here, well no, let me, I am the one accused of 'stomping' when you fully support a person who will not deny that genocide is a justified solution to the Muslim problem,

I fully support Sandi who has shown no evidence to me of a desire for genocide. On th contrary, she shows every desire to beat back tyranny. That she doesn't answer your insulting question isn't evidence in the affirmative. 

and on that same thread who denies that the murder of 8000 men and boys in a program of ethnic cleansing was a massacre.

She doesn't deny that the murder of 8000 people is a massacre, she denies that there was 8000 people murdered. That's a different thing altogether. Mr Goode, like a vulture, leaps in and calls her a Holocaust denier, without reference to the facts. Maybe there's something to this theory that the 8,000 figure is false, or maybe there's nothing to it. either way I don't know, but leaping in and compare her to a holocaust denier, like David Irving, is an insult. 

Anyway, perhaps it will help if this wanker, Richard, explains why he has decided on a personal campaign against bigots of 'all' varieties, including those, nay, especially those, on SOLO, and not just Muslim bigots (and bigoted and collectivist that loathsome religion surely is.) I came to Objectivism via Ayn Rand via, at the very inception, Linz's old radio show. Linz used to either sign on or off (can't remember which) that show quoting possibly the most complex, and most beautiful, sentence in the English language (not surprisingly, written by The Bard): 'To thine ownself be true.' It's a funny thing, but a sentence can change the path of a life: for me, that one did, because it brought a whole lot of confusion I had at the time to a single point of focus, and enabled me to think and read my way out of it. But my point here is that there is a corollary to this sentence, that the onus is on us, as the enemies of collectivists of all ilks, to judge other people true to their own selves,

I can't knock that, it's all very noble and good and a worthy aspiration. 

not to their uncles, not to their parents, not even to their mentors: to their own words and deeds.

As it should be. 

For me, at the core of Objectivism is the Individual: that's what we're all about - yes/no?

Absolutely, yes. Now, how exactly has Sandy treated Obama any other way? 

To treat people on any other basis, is to at the very least, to strike at one of Sandi’s concerns, have no integrity. At the very least … I’ve seen over several threads now, it is also much more. And Richard, do you want to be judged on the philosophies and politics of your aunts and uncles, parents, cousins third removed? Well?

Of course not. But like I said, who has done that here? Sandy has posted an article about Obama's relationship with his uncle, and you go off half cocked claiming that Sandi is being a bigot. How exactly does pointing to the relationship between Obama, and Odinga, mean bigotry? I'd have thought it's something important enough to take note of, and there's absolutely no bigotry in that.

Mark Hubbard - SOLO Bigot-KASSer

Richard Wiig said:

Mark, it seems to me that you are a wanker ... more concerned in stomping on those who might transgress ...

Interesting. Now, instead of pointing out the irony here, well no, let me, I am the one accused of 'stomping' when you fully support a person who will not deny that genocide is a justified solution to the Muslim problem, and on that same thread who denies that the murder of 8000 men and boys in a program of ethnic cleansing was a massacre. And not so because, I'm presuming, they were only Muslims and had thus by definition done, even the boys, a whole lot of bad shit regardless. Stunning, even without considering many of them were not Muslims = Jihadists (Sandi's Theorem).

Anyway, perhaps it will help if this wanker, Richard, explains why he has decided on a personal campaign against bigots of 'all' varieties, including those, nay, especially those, on SOLO, and not just Muslim bigots (and bigoted and collectivist that loathsome religion surely is.)

I came to Objectivism via Ayn Rand via, at the very inception, Linz's old radio show. Linz used to either sign on or off (can't remember which) that show quoting possibly the most complex, and most beautiful, sentence in the English language (not surprisingly, written by The Bard):

'To thine ownself be true.'

It's a funny thing, but a sentence can change the path of a life: for me, that one did, because it brought a whole lot of confusion I had at the time to a single point of focus, and enabled me to think and read my way out of it.

But my point here is that there is a corollary to this sentence, that the onus is on us, as the enemies of collectivists of all ilks, to judge other people true to their own selves, not to their uncles, not to their parents, not even to their mentors: to their own words and deeds.

For me, at the core of Objectivism is the Individual: that's what we're all about - yes/no? To treat people on any other basis, is to at the very least, to strike at one of Sandi’s concerns, have no integrity. At the very least … I’ve seen over several threads now, it is also much more.

And Richard, do you want to be judged on the philosophies and politics of your aunts and uncles, parents, cousins third removed? Well?

[I'm going out to work this morning, so look forward to your reply later.]

...more concerned in stomping on those who might transgress in your eyes than a proper analysis of the situation. It's perfectly fucking valid to mention Obama's uncle given the type of man his uncle is and the ongoing relationship they seem to have, and considering that Obama is running for president.

This is huge. In my last post I said:

"I just remembered an interview I've heard with Linz. If we were to judge him on his family 'connections', shock, horror, then I would have to conclude this site was part of a Communist plot to subvert the NZ Objectivist movement!

And right after this, as if Allah holding God's hand was divinely lighting my path, I read a Communist has just won the Presidency in Cyprus. I now understand that sending the Western world on the path of the Jihadists was nothing more than a Commie plot to draw attention from the fact the first Communist leader in Europe was about to come to power since the Cold War.

Now, I don't want to lose my head over this, but connecting the dots, Linz has known Communist family links, even more shock, horror, significant, on this very site there has been one Jihadist hunting thread after the other, as mentioned, an obvious Commie tactic. Well, I don't want to draw the noose just yet, but I'm now going to sign off this thread and delve under my cover, sorry, undercover, for further SHOCK, HORROR investigations. First up, I'm reckoning, wngreen, the man who we all know has just had a mysterious plate planted in his head (helloo, radio receiver), I'm reckoning, well, I don't want to give it all away, but that name sounds Cypriot to me ... I'll be back.

Mark Hubbard, Collectivist News Weekly, signing out, off to search out spurious links where no one has ever thought to look, because no one has ever thought. There be evil afoot, and I'm going to snuff it, sorry, I'm going to sniff it out.

Mmm.

"Mr Odinga told the BBC's World Today that Senator Obama's father was his maternal uncle."

Oh my God ... oh, no, wait a minute, Barack Obama had control over being related to his father and his uncle how? Exactly?

So now we judge a man by whom he is related to? I can tell you now, I'm very certainly not my father, because, you see, I have my own rational mind; and I love my dad, but philosophically he's a Christian cave man. Or to go one removed again, to judge me by my uncle, or my uncle by me, would be to insult both of us, and of course, get reality completely wrong, again.

Don't you think that Obama's (empty) words and deeds are enough to damn him, and those are the only points of condemnation an Objectivist should be taking heed of?

Ah no, again, of course, they're all black guys = Muslims = Jihadists.

Here we go again ...

Sandi, every night when you go to bed you have to write the word 'individual' one thousand times, then the next day you are not allowed to post until you have read what you've written.

And a question to the entire forum: hands up who wants to be judged on the politics and philosophies of their aunts and uncles? Of their parents?

Obvious answer isn't it. So what are we doing here yet again?

[Edit - After thought. I just remembered an interview I've heard with Linz. If we were to judge him on his family 'connections', shock, horror, then I would have to conclude this site was part of a Communist plot to subvert the NZ Objectivist movement! Food for thought. Silly, stupid, demeaning even, isn't it.]

"Mr Odinga told the BBC's World Today that Senator Obama's father was his maternal uncle."

islamization watch