Maybe we (the "West") could get a few "tips" from the "professionals".

"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. (Sharon may not have been joking.)

Linz: stirring rhetoric, like Zantovich said, but no real follow-through from either of you:

Zantovich: what the hell kind of nonsense is this? "Parodies 10 times more offensive would appear on government stationary?" The absolute last thing anybody needs is Governmental propagandizing. Governments that muck about in the "war of ideas" aren't a good thing--- EVEN IF they happen to advocate or do what somebody happens to consider the "right" things. The U.S.A. is pretty much strangled at this point, by our benevolent State Overseers in the FCC busily attempting to enforce PC speech codes and "communications decency". The absolute last thing anybody needs is the damned Government -- any damned government -- propagandizing it's subjects, for ANY reasons.

This should be a private matter for the PRIVATE sector (free individuals.) The most obvious solution would be for those of you who claim to be so concerned about this collosal non-issue to actually pony up and be KASS enough to DO SOMETHING about it:

Here's a little tip:
A few years ago, a guy calling himself DJ Dangermouse made something called a "mashup" of Jay-Z's rap 'music' and the Beatles "White Album". Sony attempted to have a "cease and desist" order put on it, and almost immediately huge numbers of whiny collegiate "protesters" began donating huge amounts of storage space and bandwidth, and spreading the thing far and wide as a protest for "free speech". Now why is it that a bunch of whiny vaguely-Leftist College kids can manage to have enough balls to do something like that over an essentially inconsequential piece of musical ephermera, but so-called defenders of the "right to offend" can't be bothered to post the damn cartoons, and spread 'em around like mad? Saturate the Net with the damn things, I say. Make the point that we in the West -- unlike the centralized, State-controlled media so many other places -- will, as a point of general principle -- spread "offensive" material around like a bad case of the clap. Take some risk, for once -- pony up, and put your bandwidth where your mouth is, I say.
You should make it a point to have the "offensive" cartoons on the fron page of SOLOpassion from now until an indeterminate time in the futre, if for no other reason than to spit in the bastards' eyes.

Outstanding article, Lindsay. Fine and stunning rhetoric.

But I don't know if "shaming" is the best term and concept here. Certainly the world of Islam needs to be utterly morally and intellectually condemned: it should be attacked in words of exceptional insult, fury, and hatred.

One way or the other the West has to be much more self-confident and aggressive in this battle of words and wills. We need to really take it to the enemy. Unfortunately, we seem to be doing close to zero.

In an ideal world, all 12 of those cartoons would be reprinted in every newspaper on earth. Then parodies 10 times more offensive would be. These, in turn, would appear on government stationary, stamps and flags flown in Muslim states. The cartoonists would be internationally feted heroes. And so on.

But when will our leaders ever use Lindsay's passionate rhetoric and reproach them in the way they infinitely deserve? Will we wait 50 years? Only when we call them savage and barbaric to their face will they ever feel the humiliation and dishonor necessary to motivate them to change their ways. Western sensitivity and PC delicacy to the theoretical "good" Muslims is essentially suicidal here. IMHO, there's not the slightest chance for "peace on earth, goodwill toward men" until the West and Islam have some extremely unpleasant, ugly, and obscene confrontations.   

~~ Tolerance is like being polite or, 'civil' if you will. It's a 'putting up with' something or other.

~~ The problem with any stressed advocacy of it (other than teaching children about being polite), is that, especially nowadays what with diversity-acceptance being stressed, limits are never even hinted at, much less defined.

~~ Why is it that some 'sympathizing' idiots who ought to know better advocate tolerance for those violently-oriented to their intolerance-of-disagreement? (Here, I specify 'disagreement' as including a lack of respect [aka reverence] for certain beliefs)?

~~ Criticizers, whether satirists (ie: cartoonists and/or writers) and documentarians (movie-makers) show no reverence (aka 'respect') to their subject in their speech...hence, show a lack of tolerance. They are to be castigated? Whereas killers and killer-threateners of the criticizers show a lack of tolerance in their violent actions, and, they are too be 'understood'? (Whatever happened to the old arguments about 'violence'? Oh; 9/11, right; guess that old argument's moot now.)

~~ Tolerance without limits is nothing other than appeasement (and we all oughtta know where THAT leads; unfortunately, too many of us don't, while the killers do). It's an enshrining of a Schmoo (check it out) as an ideal.

~~ At some point, even 'tolerators' should not be...tolerated.

LLAP

J:D

P.S: Anyone going to go see "United 93"?  I understand it might be a bit strong, but, it supposedly has full backing of ALL families involved.___N-E-V-E-R F-O-R-G-E-T

Tolerance is great - in fact it's the one of the cornerstones of a free, vibrant society.

Tolerance does not include tolerance of the initiation of force or fraud against others. I'm quite prepared to tolerate anyone's religious beliefs, until they start trying to abrogate my rights or the rights of others.

"Your speech offends me and the rest of the Islamic community!" - fine, I can tolerate that, just like I tolerate people who object to me eating meat or riding fast motorcycles. By listening politely, debating politely, or simply ignoring them as the mood takes me.

"Your speech offends me and the rest of the Islamic community, so I'm going to murder you!" - that should not be tolerated, that should be denounced in the harshest terms possible.

Bravo, Lindsay, for doing exactly that!

I fear from all this that we are slipping into politically correct totalitarianism, and a world where we walk around under an umbrella of tolerance, and respect, and (gasp) diversity trainings/brainwashing. Fortunately this fear is shortlived, when I read a piece like this, which lifts my flagging spirits like a shot of B12.

Thank you Lindsay.

"In the name of humanity, Islam must be put to death. Not by nuking, but by shaming. Not by the sword (though if the maggots leave us no alternative we should not hesitate to use it) but by the word."

Th love of truth, the willingness to stand up and be counted. This is a wonderful, impassioned call to action for all who value life and civilization to walk the talk.

John

It's an irony that Farrar, a nervous-nelly weasel-worder, should host the most visited NZ repository of e-opinionation when he's so frightened of opinions himself. As with most of the half-wits posting there, the part he would have most difficulty with is this: "Death to Islam—and all forms of tyranny over the minds of men." Farrar used to be a spin doctor of some kind for the Nats. Might still be for all I know. His biggest nightmare would be Don Brash coming out with something bold like that. Hell, it might just win votes!

I made a post.

I read something about Zionism and realized it wouldn't be worth it to stay around. Nothing like seeing complaints about "Zionism" and complaints about someone being a nazi in the same discussion.

---Landon

It all basically comes back to fight or flight.

The debate on David Farrar's blog is heating up.

Posters are (intentionally, I suspect) confusing calls for a war of ideas with a call for physical extermination - which on the positive side is a sign of desparation, for it means they have no answer to our actual arguments.

Perhaps some SOLOists could head over & set them straight?

Your writing style is particularly suited to this topic. I think you're right: a good "shaming" of the islamic community would go a long way. If more folks went beyond the call of duty deriding any idiot who threatens murder over a cartoon, things would be moving in the right direction.

It would be great if we heard politicians or local leaders say something like this: "I saw you people today holding up signs threatening murder over cartoons, and I want you to know I think it's ridiculous, childish, brutish, and shameful." I gurantee this would have an effect on the more moderate, going with the grain-type muslims who participate in the protests.

--Dan Edge

Because it's causing riots in the streets of NZ. Or at least on a popular blog:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/archives/013724.html

Evidently I frightened the horses, & not a few Islamo-fascists as well.

The Dominion Post, source of the wonderful editorial I quoted, has now apologised to the local Muslim community. I am shaking with disgust. On top of that, we hear today that the National Party is going to oppose visits by U.S. nuclear-POWERED warships. Every which way one turns is nothing but filth & those who appease it. I feel nauseated beyond words. Phil, I'm of a mind to get one of those dogs & set it upon any "human being" I encounter. Ugh!

What a great post Mr Perigo. Mind you I will confess you have never submitted an article I did not agree with or at the very least enjoy immensely.
The rights and freedoms of modern secular society must be defended by both word and deed, now more so than ever.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson
With respect to the tea towel man outside your door may I suggest you get a big hungry dog? I have an old English Mastiff called Max. He is 10 months old, 76kg and growing every day, great nose on him(smell Plastique at a 100 yards!), friendly and well trained (top of the class at dog obedience). Best of all Mastiffs are an ancient war dogs bred across centuries for combat...

Even the Aussie Labour Foreign Affairs spokesman is being uncompromising though Beazley is being mealy mouthed about it. I am outraged that Brash and Hide have said nothing.

New Zealand will, of course, simply be concerned about trade, like it is with Iran - it wont matter a jot as long as butter gets sold. Clark spinelessly sought official advice before commenting - showing she has no political gut reaction to the events at all. She doesn't rely on advice on things that matter to her - she just let the whimpering diplomats at MFAT tell her to stand back from it all.

This issue has me riled up enormously - partly because I live in a city where the Islamofascists spread their murderous intent and actually implement it and partly because the scum happily publish cartoons showing Jews to be Nazis, and do nothing about the executions, bombings and other violence people of THEIR religion commit against their own people and other people. I can't think of much else to put on my blog (http://libertyscott.blogspot.com) for now.

If only Voltaire had been right, and the Bible (and Koran) had become historical curiosities one century after he died.

Jody:

Ha! You're just glad others got on that suicide-bomber list of targets!

After I'd done FreeRad stuff & Daily Linz 23 today I left my apartment for supplies. On the street outside my apartment block a clapped-out car driven by a bearded, swarthy man wearing a tea-towel on his head was cruising slowly back & forth. I swear I'm not making this up! I thought to myself, "Shit! Orion Reasoner was right!"

Robt W: You're very welcome!

Bravo Linz!

Absolutely spot-on and timely. And well done (for once) the NZ media. And the Danes too! Whenever fascism calls they always surprise.

From http://www.auschwitz.dk/Denmark.htm
"It's one of the great untold stories of World War II: In 1943, in German-occupied Denmark, the Danish people find out that all 7,500 Danish Jews are about to be rounded up and deported to German concentration camps. Danish citizens spontaneously make their own decision: it's not going to happen. And it didn't. Risking their own lives, the Danes quickly rallied round to save their fellow citizens, and almost all of the country's Jews were able to escape the clutches of the Nazis and find refuge in neutral Sweden."

Sorry for not chiming in sooner. That bloody Brokeback Mountain movie had me too depressed to do anything Sunday. It was so bad that only Spencer Tracy could (Inherit the Wind) bring me back from the brink!

"Derek, Julian, Jody, Mark Dow—thanks for the support. (Mark—great to hear from a SOLO newbie!)"

Ha! You're just glad others got on that suicide-bomber list of targets!
"Academia is the #1 respository of Saddamy & apologetics for Islamo-fascism in the form of cultural relativism."

Hey now, my wife assigns Ayn Rand. You are right though, I'm absolutely dumbfounded at the ideas these students pick up from their professors. I actually expect this though, what I'm more amazed about is their complete passivity to such ideas. At least in America, I'm coming to believe that the problem, and a grave one at that, begins desperately early with childen at the hands of government education. Jag-off professors are a dime a dozen, and intellectually, easily taken to the mat for the count. What is scary, is that these college kids are not even aware of the intellectual battle, or that they have conscious minds of their own.

Derek, Julian, Jody, Mark Dow—thanks for the support. (Mark—great to hear from a SOLO newbie!)

Jim—kudos on an unusually UNambivalent post!

Shayne—thanks for posting the Hitchens link.

Casey—yes, change within academia would be good, but like you, I suspect, I'm not holding my breath. Academia is the #1 respository of Saddamy & apologetics for Islamo-fascism in the form of cultural relativism. And I don't think this generation of Muslims deserves any vicarious credit for the salvaging of Aristotle all those centuries ago!

Erik—public reaction in New Zealand has been roughly 50/50. No mainstream politician, alas, has stood up unequivocally for freedom of speech. The demonstrators here sported placards that were less virulent than the overseas ones, but their screaming and general demeanour were just as much those of "empty-headed, malevolent umbrage-takers."

I have the strong impression that Americans in particular have no grasp of how urgent the situation is. Julian's post about a "lost opportunity" is particularly apposite.

Linz

...to praise this piece, to shout it's praise. Lately my time on the comp has been sparse(the totalitarian woman of the house is studying for her PhD major and minor exams), this makes it all the more valuable that I spend it wisely. This is great Linz.

Check this out; http://www.filibustercartoons.com/

Linz, I heard that around 700 Muslim's protested in the streets of Auckland recently over the Mohammed cartoons. What's the reaction by Kiwi's?

Hitchens pegged my feelings about this: "It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts", on the other hand it's good to see that there are at least some people in the general culture who think like Hitchens, so thanks for posting that Derek.

By the way, here's the link to his article: http://www.slate.com/id/2135499/. (And if anyone knows of links to others writing with some sense on the matter, please post the links!)

A while back in the early 90's when we still basically had an appeasement policy toward the terrorists, Tom Clancy wrote an Op-Ed entitled "The Tiger is Clawing on Our Face". This was a riff on the claim that we shouldn't get involved in fighting terrorism against Israel because we would "wake the tiger"

He included an anecdote about how the Soviets had had their own Iran hostage crisis, but it was much shorter. The Sovs for all of their evil brutality knew how to deal with terrorists. When their hostages were kidnapped in Iran, the kidnapped a high ranking Iranian official, cut off his ear and sent it to the Iranians. They got their hostages back quickly.

The French for all of their ridiculous appeasement within the country have fairly effective assassination squads internationally to kill terrorists with a unique MO. They kill the bastards and bury them without a trace and give no press to the event. The effectiveness is clear. Without knowing what happened to their comrade, the terrorists cannot claim him as a martyr and fund raising vehicle.

We must match the enemy's resolve with force and mind. In the realm of ideas and on the battlefield and let the enemy know that we will do whatever it takes to defeat them.

Jim

Great stuff, Linz. I'm as revolted as you are by the mealy-mouthed utterings of the US State Department, coupled with the self-censorship of most of the US media. One of the few US-based commentators willing to stick his neck out has been Christopher Hitchens, who asks in his latest column: what did the Department mean by " 'unacceptable'...that [the cartoons] should be forbidden"? In a civil society, he writes, "free expression trumps the emotions of anyone to whom free expression might be inconvenient. It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts, and it is positively outrageous that the [US] administration should have discarded them at the very first sign of a fight."

Any further comments I have about Krishna2 have already been made!

Great Post Lindsay! Sorry you have to have flies like Krisn2 buzzing around your head though.

Thanks Lindsay. I have little to add that has not been said already. I fear that western governments and in many cases journalists have missed the best opportunity that they have had for a while to draw a line as to what sets western civilisation apart from those Islamic savages. This was an opportunity to say loud and clear - That western civilisation promotes individual freedom - and that individuals will be free in our countries to promote ideas which others may not necessarily agree with. It is indeed sad that this opportunity was lost. What we have seen are governments rushing to pass judgement on the cartoons (something which it should have no opinion on) in an attempt to placate these savages. This is myopic thinking and this appeasement will have terrible consequences in the coming years.

Islam - as Lindsay wrote - is not deserving of respect.

Julian

Not my picture here...smiling...

 I am sure every living 6.5 billion souls today is convinced that there is no God -any supernatural

entity,that is!

 The issue here is about having respect for the great minds regardless of their Errors!...SMILING...

Reality will always correct the wrong ideas but one should never insult the great people...smiling...

They will always accept their mistakes in thier next birth...laughing...

 Would you insult Gail Wyand?...

Religion, in the form of monotheistic totalitarianism over the moral quality of the individual, requiring the relinquishment of his reason and demanding intellectual obedience (faith) in its place, is a scourge to humanity designed as a hand-maiden of tyranny. It has been tamed only by a few governments in the history of mankind. Centuries ago, Christianity lobotomized the western world and the Islamic world salvaged the works of Aristotle from that religious orgy of destruction. We owe the preservation of the seeds of Western Civilization to the Muslims.

And now, as history reverses itself and the true spirit of religion, faith, reasserts its totalitarian self in Islam, after being momentarily tamed in Western Civilization, freedom of the press to characterize the connection between Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism is met with threats of terrorism by Islamic fundamentalists.

Crowds of Muslims burned down embassies because they heard that Korans were being burned -- even though every embassy in a Muslim country contains copies of the Koran, which they burned.

Of course, it's madness, and perhaps it has gotten so absurd that the civilized world will recognize a difference that needs to now be addressed and that modern theory, multi-culturalism specifically, has glossed over.

An example comes to mind. In protest, a Muslim organization that represents Muslims in Europe is now publishing cartoons depicting such scenes as Anne Frank in bed with Adolf Hitler. The difference is this: No one will march for violence against the cartoonists.

That reality has to be recognized at the academic level now.

That is my hope.