Death to Islam! [Re-Prioritised, Sept 11, 2018, to Mark 9/11.]

Lindsay Perigo's picture
Submitted by Lindsay Perigo on Mon, 2006-02-06 23:49

[Note—June 13, 2016, following the killing of 50+ revellers at an Orlando gay nightclub: I hope LGBT moronnials, the Pink Swastika carriers who support the Islamappeasing agenda of Obama and remain silent, as he does, about Islam's routine killing of gays while loudly propounding a totalitarian PC agenda of their own, will be awakened by yesterday's slaughters to the nature of Islam in particular and tyranny in general.]

No, this is not a call to genocide. I leave that to the Islamo-fascist filth who yearn to perpetrate it: “Death to Israel!” “Death to America!” “Death to the Infidel!” and so on.

They’ve been out in force recently, these squalid savages, these bigoted barbarians, these hysterical humanity-haters, these tawdry terrorists, these god-ridden grotesqueries, these ignoble ignoramuses, these genocidal jihadists … burning flags and embassies because their super-superstitious sensibilities were offended by some cartoons in a Danish newspaper. In London they took advantage of the freedom they so despise, this murderous mass of Muslim maggotry, to infest the streets, sporting signs such as “Freedom Go To Hell!” “Prepare For The REAL Holocaust!” and “Annihilate [massacre, exterminate/butcher/behead] those who would insult Islam!” In the name of humanity, Islam must be put to death. Not by nuking, but by shaming. Not by the sword (though if the maggots leave us no alternative we should not hesitate to use it) but by the word. Human beings worthy of the title must rise up and shout in irresistible unison: “Enough of this primordial primitivism! We who are civilised are revolted by it and shall rebuff it at every turn!” Muslims must discover rationality and decency; Westerners must rediscover them, and, as a matter of urgency, speak up for them! All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for cowards to appease it—and Islam is the locus of evil in the contemporary world.

There’s been far too much appeasement of it. The U.S. State Department, with merely a nod in the direction—rather than a ringing defence—of freedom of the press, has pronounced the cartoons, lampooning Mohammed, “unacceptable” because they cause “offence” to Muslims. Would cartoons ridiculing Stalin have been deemed unacceptable for causing offence to communists? Has the State Department forgotten that there is no such thing as a right not to be offended? That free speech includes the right to say things others will find offensive? CNN has declined to screen the cartoons “out of respect for Islam.” Leaving aside that Islam is not worthy of an iota of respect (while the right to believe in it or any other form of nonsense is worthy of utmost respect), has CNN forgotten that the freedom of publication on which it is so reliant is endangered by such cowardly self-censorship? Even the Danish newspaper that originally published the cartoons—precisely as a challenge to the maggots’ insistence that their feelings be given special consideration—has apologised for causing offence. Freedom, and with it the world, is perishing from an orgy of apologising to a global harem of empty-headed, malevolent umbrage-takers.

Let us not forget that while Muslims are the locus of totalitarianism, they are aided and abetted by an array of allied ayatollahs, woeful witch-doctors of every hue. I quote from the Horror File of the upcoming Free Radical:

“Christian and Muslim church leaders have rallied to stop a South Park episode, that depicts the Virgin Mary bleeding, from going to air. … The episode, which the CanWest channel plans to screen in May, shows a statue of the Virgin Mary bleeding. A cartoon character of Pope Benedict is called to investigate and declares she is menstruating. ‘Chicks bleed all the time’ he says. … Catholic Communications Director Lyndsay Freer said representatives of the Council of Christians and Jews and Council of Christians and Muslims, Anglican Bishops, the Salvation Army and other church leaders have signed the letter requesting that C4 not screen the episode. ‘The letter pointed out it would give offence to a great many people.’ (Dominion Post, January 30, 2006)"

Yes, a global harem of umbrage-takers. Reassuringly, C4 is going to screen the episode regardless of these two-bit totalitarians. And television channels and most major newspapers in New Zealand have not only published the Danish cartoons but defended their right to do so. The Dominion Post, in an editorial that is superior to most of what has come out of mainstream American media on the subject, said:

“Modern society rests on the contest of ideas, the ability to question perceived wisdom and to challenge authority. Without that contest, and without the right to free speech that makes it possible, societies stultify and become entrenched in their beliefs. That freedom to question and to challenge must include the right to be offensive, to affront people’s most heartfelt beliefs, even to disparage that which they hold sacred. Otherwise it is an empty freedom. … There have been earlier cultural confrontations between the West and a resurgent Islam, beginning with the death sentence pronounced in 1989 on author Salmon Rushdie for The Satanic Verses, and including the murder in 2004 of Dutch film-maker Theo van Gogh after he made a film dealing with violence against Islamic women. They are confrontations the West cannot afford to lose. The right to freedom of speech is a precious one that must be defended.”

It cannot be defended—indeed, it can only be betrayed—by apologetic weasel-worders appeasing militant, murderous morons whose savage pseudo-sensibilities have been stirred, not by sticks and stones, but by words. May men of righteous rationality reignite the flame of reason and fight an unapologetic philosophical jihad in its holy name, that it may illumine the globe and save the world from another Dark Ages. Death to Islam—and all forms of tyranny over the minds of men!


( categories: )

Please read more carefully.

Adonis's picture

Actually, I did put a link to a post I put in the blog that included articles regarding Islam and Libertarianism in one of my comments below. It's here http://www.solopassion.com/nod...

Oh dear!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Do I take it there'll be no "How the Prophet Was a Libertarian" article then?

Damn! And here I was running all my tea-towels through the laundry.

Oh please.. Mr Ego-Masturbation has arrived..

Adonis's picture

Lindsay, Say what you like. Your ungentlemanly conduct and arrogance is repulsive which is only made worse by the fact that you're so willfully ignorant. Your waffling rhetoric clearly lacks any real substance and I regard it the way I'd regard any shock-jock, someone who just says outrageous things at the top of their voice to influence the ignorant masses to do stupid things and does so as a form of ego-masturbation to make himself feel superior and important.

I find it quite embarrassing that you are a Libertarian, had I not migrated here to New Zealand and been interested in promoting the noble ideas Libertarianism for the common good of mankind you could be quite sure that I wouldn't waste my time even addressing your outright stupidity and arrogance.

In addition to that, my Prophet, contrary to what ignorant people like yourself say was not a child-molester. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that because you clearly haven't put in the research.

Adonis

Wow so many replies!

Adonis's picture

Hey everyone! Sorry I didn't respond earlier I was a little busy with some other things!

Jmaurone! Thank you very much for the information about this magazine, I'll check it out once borders re opens hopefully. I had actually never ever googled Islam and Libertarianism at all before but did so after reading what you wrote and I came across some excellent websites and articles on it that I'd like to share.

To make sure that we don't run Lindsay's blog off track, I've created a post in response to your comments. It's located at http://www.solopassion.com/nod... and is titled "Islam and Libertarianism: Response to the comments on Lindsay Perigo's 'Death to Islam' post.

I hope you'll all read the post and the linked articles and websites and see what I'm talking about.

In Freedom,

Adonis

"Adonis"

Lindsay Perigo's picture

I regard Islam as a stinking, stupid superstition, for reasons which are self-evident to any intelligent and humane observer of history and current events, which reasons I've laid out in previous articles both here and in Salient magazine. You're welcome to write an article on "How the Prophet Was a Libertarian," which I might even blue-sticky for discussion, but I should warn you that I for one shall give it short shrift.

It doesn't surprise me to learn that there's a "libertarian Islam" touted in Liberty magazine: the purview of child-molesters like your Prophet.

Gregster

Callum McPetrie's picture

You're right - I said so here:

"The difference between the two religions back then, and what they are now, is in the secular philosophies that provide the base for religious thought and interpretation."

As the philosophies change, so do people's views of the scriptures.

Thanks Callum

gregster's picture

I was a little light on detail. The onus was on him.

"Likewise, the scriptures of both Islam and Christianity haven't changed at all over many thousands of years (at least in any fundamental way),"

Well they can't but it's their implementation which changes. Some Anglican bishops don't believe in god. Christianity has taken in environmentalism in its desperation to appeal to potential customers.

I see you made it here Adonis

Mark Hubbard's picture

I see you made it here Adonis Smiling

And with a bang rather than a whimper.

Your line of argument on this thread is completely anathema to me. I would be fascinated for proof from the Koran of the Muhammad is a Libertarian argument.

On the face of it, that would seem absurd. References please.

Though that aside, if it were true, then Islam has been hijacked to the point it would make no difference. Like Christianity, it advocates you absolve volition in your life to an outside mystical Other. And then worse than modern Christianity, Islam has become an evil creed typified by use of force through the sword.

[Edit: what Callum said below. I just wish I had been able to say it so well.]

Gregster, Adonis - there's

Callum McPetrie's picture

Gregster, Adonis - there's not much point debating how libertarian Mohammed was based from texts from the Qur'an because Islam, like Christianity, is not a systematic, coherent philosophy. Its teachings are often contradictory; and as with any religion, there is a large amount of picking-and-choosing what you want to believe.

Likewise, the scriptures of both Islam and Christianity haven't changed at all over many thousands of years (at least in any fundamental way), yet the worlds of both are far different in 2010 than what they were in, say, the year 800. Back then, Islam was the religion of enlightened thought, and Christianity was in the middle of the Dark Ages.

The difference between the two religions back then, and what they are now, is in the secular philosophies that provide the base for religious thought and interpretation. After many bloody centuries, the Christian religion was the first that the ideals of the Renaissance, and later the Enlightenment were incorporated into.

Unfortunately, Islam never went through the Enlightenment, and has been the religion into which the modern ideas of altruism and collectivism have been incorporated into the most fully. The entire Muslim world and many other parts of the world are suffering as a result.

The ideas of altruism and collectivism are especially dangerous when they are combined with religion, because religion takes a supernatural being, outside of human knowledge and reason, to be the source of ultimate authority on issues of human life. This is why Christianity took so long to adopt the Enlightenment; reason as the source of knowledge (which is what the doctrine of classical-liberalism is based on) and an unknowable God as the supreme authority in human affairs are incompatible.

So, fundamentally the problem is not the teachings of Mohammed and the Qur'an. The problem with Islam is its nature as a religion, and its adoption of altruism and collectivism.

Heads Up

Jmaurone's picture

The current issue of Liberty magazine (at least the one currently on the rack at Borders) has an article about a Libertarian Islam. I haven't read it, just happened to see it, but thought it an odd coincidence; I've never heard about it before until this thread. Just a heads up.

Adonis was asked

gregster's picture

to give evidence for his claim:

"you will find that Liberal thought is in the core Islam and I'd argue that the Prophet was a Libertarian."

None was available except his further assertions. None will be forthcoming.

By "utterly false" I mean exactly that "utterly false." Try a dictionary. I don't write Polish.

"Just because a minority of people practice something completely different you want to judge all of us on that?"

Oi, you are thereby an admitted collectivist, and/or a bad writer/logician. I could smell it a mile off.

"And you think you're somehow enlightened?"

Not my claim but whom the cap fits..

"Get real mate.."

Now you're talking, if only.

"I'd rather judge people based on what the facts of the religion are after studying it properly rather than just be ignorant like yourself."

I wouldn't recommend any dogma, those practicing it are primitives, always. What's new here? Which cave have you been in? Do you know where Bin Laden is? Do the right thing for once in your sorry existence, turn him in.

"How interesting is it that when you are asked to provide evidence you reply with none."

You began the story, and provided zero corroboration when probed.

"Do you even believe in Liberal ideas?"

No, I hate liberals almost as much as religionists. [edit: in Jefferson's context the definition of liberal was less offensive than today's]

"Do you believe in the burden of proof being on the accuser?"

Yes, the burden of proof lies with the accuser. (Tip: It's always easy when reasonable honesty is on your side.)

"It doesn't appear so."

Read it all again then (or find a rope).

What do you mean utterly

Adonis's picture

What do you mean utterly false in reality? Just because a minority of people practice something completely different you want to judge all of us on that? And you think you're somehow enlightened? Get real mate.. I'd rather judge people based on what the facts of the religion are after studying it properly rather than just be ignorant like yourself.

How interesting is it that when you are asked to provide evidence you reply with none. Do you even believe in Liberal ideas? Do you believe in the burden of proof being on the accuser?

It doesn't appear so.

Keep up the enquiry though :)

gregster's picture

"No human being is allowed to be forced to believe in Islam and has the right to choose."

Ideally but utterly false in reality. You are living with an imaginary Islam, corrupted by creeping supposed modernity. Watch your back when you talk like that openly. Happy New Year.

It's because there's no

Adonis's picture

It's because there's no physical compulsion on this earth. No human being is allowed to be forced to believe in Islam and has the right to choose. It's not unintelligible at all, it just requires you to look into the meaning of it. If someone chooses to leave then that's fine. It's between them and God. You can't make people believe things.

I can cite it easily, there were many people who questioned his authority. Who disagreed with him in public. Who called him crazy and did many other things that were far worse, yet he didn't punish them and let them do it. Look for the examples of Taif, look for the examples of his own companions refusing to do what he said, or questioning his authority. People had the right of free speech. Whatever people did was their own business providing that it didn't harm others.

You say that about Tony Blair, but Thomas Jefferson, an amazing Liberal thinker and one of my greatest heroes was also saying the same things.. Was that bad too?

Elephant? Oh please.. You know the fact is that you're the one making the accusations yet not providing the evidence. So how about you start doing so and I will address the claims that you make.

Cite it or shut up; no don't bother

gregster's picture

So you say: Islam gives property rights, individual rights, freedom of association and freedom of disassociation. You then say there's no agreed interpretation amongst Islamist scholars. Then the scripture you supply contradicts what you're trying to argue:

"There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient." (Qur'an 2:256)

Aside from the fact that another 'scholar' could cherry pick a Qur'an quote to the opposite effect, the above is unintelligible. "no compulsion in religion" then "anyone who believes in GOD.. the strongest bond that never breaks."

What if one then wishes to disbelieve in this imaginary friend or worse, gravitate to a more seductive variety. I won't even go into your imaginary friend's omniscience and audio-voyeurism.

"The idea of forcing people to stay Muslim is ludicrous, you can't force people to believe anything to do so only causes hypocrisy."

As above. Take the blinkers off buddy.

"How was Muhammad peace be upon him a Libertarian? He believed that people should be able to say and do what they wanted so long as they didn't harm anyone else."

Show where this is put. Cite it. You're being arbitrary. (Don't bother citing it - another Qur'an quote to fit - I expect there's one for every interweb occasion.)

"He was against big government and tyranny."

Probably preferred his camel and tent.

"He was for self defence and having the right to keep and carry arms."

I hadn't heard yet a positive for the man but again where can you prove this?

"He hated slavery and believed that all men (and women) had equal rights regardless of race, tribe, ethnicity, colour, socio economic status etc and that all were owed justice."

So does Tony Blair and every other wish for the elusive social justice. It ain't good. As mentioned earlier, altruism will lead to the death of us all.

"But I bet you didn't know any of that because you haven't looked through anything other than anti-Islam websites."

I don't need websites, the elephant's standing in front of me.

"How about looking at both sides of government."

Unintelligible.

Actually, I disagree.. Islam

Adonis's picture

Actually, I disagree..

Islam gives property rights, individual rights, freedom of association and freedom of disassociation. Just because some so called scholars are skewed in their thinking by saying that people can't leave Islam without being given the death penalty it doesn't mean that's Islam. There's a difference of opinion on the issue and a great number of scholars agree that people should come and go as they please as the Qur'an says:

"There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient." (Qur'an 2:256)

The idea of forcing people to stay Muslim is ludicrous, you can't force people to believe anything to do so only causes hypocrisy.

Next,

How was Muhammad peace be upon him a Libertarian? He believed that people should be able to say and do what they wanted so long as they didn't harm anyone else. He was against big government and tyranny. He was for self defence and having the right to keep and carry arms. He hated slavery and believed that all men (and women) had equal rights regardless of race, tribe, ethnicity, colour, socio economic status etc and that all were owed justice.

But I bet you didn't know any of that because you haven't looked through anything other than anti-Islam websites. How about looking at both sides of government.

First things first

gregster's picture

"how exactly doesn't Islam respect rights? Which rights are you referring to?"

I'm referring to individual rights, property rights, freedom of association, or more importantly in Islam's case, disassociation.

But I'm not going to answer until you give some evidence for:

"They need the West to extend a hand of friendship and show liberal ideas through their example as leaders in this field, because once you research it properly, you will find that Liberal thought is in the core Islam and I'd argue that the Prophet was a Libertarian."

My comments were not

Adonis's picture

My comments were not contradictory.

Also, let's have some discourse about this then, how exactly doesn't Islam respect rights? Which rights are you referring to?

Contradiction

gregster's picture

Contradiction.

"The placards that we saw people holding at those protests carrying such messages were disgraceful and were not reflective of Islamic teachings at all, but it was still their right to speak their minds with freedom of speech just as it is for you to say what you like."

Not reflective..

"I did find it interesting though that all of those posters were made exactly the same way, with the same type of writing rather than being posters that the individuals themselves had made.. That indicates that it was an organization led by someone who has people under their influence."

But "an organisation" has them under control. Not just a rabble then.

"I wouldn't judge Christianity based on the racist KKK or Judaism based on Zionists, rather I look at the source to find what the true example is and see that."

And they all share the same mystic collectivist philosophy which has led to each genocidal monstrosity.

"You seem incapable of doing that because you're filled with hate."

Yes - I'll ignore the ad hominem - hate for the altruist philosophy.

"a separation of powers and a guarantee of rights is far superior and more in line with Islam "

Christianity, the KKK, Socialism, Islam - none respect rights. Who are you kidding?

Please don't presume to be

Adonis's picture

Please don't presume to be able to read my mind and quote it as you have Gregster. I am incredibly happy and grateful to be Muslim and have only had my faith strengthened with my researching into other ideas and I am confident in my ability to defend my beliefs through the only thing necessary, logic and reasoning. The only reason I probably wouldn't have become Muslim after being in the Gulf is because of the example of Muslims that I saw, rather than learning about what Islam is.. Through better sources and through the example of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

The placards that we saw people holding at those protests carrying such messages were disgraceful and were not reflective of Islamic teachings at all, but it was still their right to speak their minds with freedom of speech just as it is for you to say what you like.

I did find it interesting though that all of those posters were made exactly the same way, with the same type of writing rather than being posters that the individuals themselves had made.. That indicates that it was an organization led by someone who has people under their influence. Weak minded people. These people aren't reflective of Islam or Muslims though, they are so miniscule that they aren't even a small minority, they're too insignificant to count and they hold no real power within the Muslim communities. I wouldn't judge Christianity based on the racist KKK or Judaism based on Zionists, rather I look at the source to find what the true example is and see that. You seem incapable of doing that because you're filled with hate.

Nevertheless, as I mentioned before the war here is not one on the physical battlefield with combatants engaged in physical combat so much as it is a battle of ideas. The ideas of liberty for all with limited government, a separation of powers and a guarantee of rights is far superior and more in line with Islam than any of the ideas that are in the Middle East and therefore will come out victorious, if of course the effort is put in the right places.

Bronze Adonis

gregster's picture

"I dare say that had I not become Muslim by my own choice more than 8 years ago now before traveling to the Middle East and living there, that I probably wouldn't have become a Muslim, especially based on my experiences in the Gulf."

"But, alas, I'm now one and that's that." You may think your child-molester Prophet was a libertarian, a libertine sure, a liberationist even. The battle is against evil philosophy, Islam remains its most obvious proponent.

Mr Perigo could take you apart if he wishes but I don't think your premises are properly aligned.

In London they took advantage of the freedom they so despise, this murderous mass of Muslim maggotry, to infest the streets, sporting signs such as “Freedom Go To Hell!” “Prepare For The REAL Holocaust!” and “Annihilate [massacre, exterminate/butcher/behead] those who would insult Islam!”

That was a sample of London's Islamist filth.

Waffle Waffle Waffle.....

Adonis's picture

Good Evening Lindsay,

I have to say that as a fellow Libertarian, I will, to the death vehemently defend your right to free speech, I don't however feel the need to defend your arrogance nor the ridiculous amount of rhetoric filled waffling on you tend to do. It is quite clear from your post that you're not only quite uneducated regarding Islam but quite obviously not interested in finding out the truth and prefer to sensationalize which only shows your ignorance. I am disappointed that a fellow Libertarian and a founder and former leader of the Libertarianz has such arrogant and ungentlemanly conduct.

But that's okay, I don't blame you, the unfortunate truth is that the majority of the Muslim world within places like the Middle East, Persia, Central and South Asia are indeed quite educated about Islam themselves and are a terrible example of Islam, not all in their practice of such disgusting practices as these cases are really only very few, but their lack of proactive activism to stop such things from happening. I have spent time in the Middle East and seen the extremism that do you refer to, I've seen the unfair treatment to women and other stupid illogical practices. I dare say that had I not become Muslim by my own choice more than 8 years ago now before traveling to the Middle East and living there, that I probably wouldn't have become a Muslim, especially based on my experiences in the Gulf. The truth is that the Muslim world within such places lost some incredibly important aspects to it that once made us so special, the ability to use science and philosophy with the help of critical thinking, analysis and logic to understand the world and help the world progress. Now we have fallen into a lull of obedience to tyranny, literalists, disgusting tribal and cultural practices and ignorance.

The problems that you mentioned such as terrorism, extremism, barbarism etc is no doubt valid, however they are not Islamic practices. Rather they are the practices of uneducated, tribalistic, absolutist and hatefilled people who lack an understanding of context and use their hatefilled perverted interpretation of an ideology as a means to control and oppress others. Islam is not the only victim in this, secularism, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and even Environmentalism have been used in the same way by such people.

IF you took the time to really study Islam by studying the Qur'an, Tafseer's, Hadiths and Seerah in an academic manner by using logic, critical thinking and analysis based on all the available text (which I doubt you would as you seem to love to hate too much) then you'd see that those behaviors in fact contradict Islamic teachings, and were not practiced by the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. He warned us against such dangerous people and their actions when he taught us to seek honesty and knowledge so that we could purify our faith "from the falsification of the extremists, and the assumptions of the liars, and the misinterpretation of the fools.”

So the truth is Lindsay, YES the Muslim world within those parts does need the West's help. They need the West to extend a hand of friendship and show liberal ideas through their example as leaders in this field, because once you research it properly, you will find that Liberal thought is in the core Islam and I'd argue that the Prophet was a Libertarian. What the Muslim world doesn't need is more hate, more meddling, more bombs or more sanctions.

The battle of ideas cannot be won through bombs, those that would try and overpower their adversaries through violence or hate are those who can not truly defend their beliefs through logical thought and proper discourse.. If the West were to approach the situation correctly, this problem would have been solved long ago, but the last decade has only made the problem worse.

With Peace,

Adonis Vlahos
http://thevitalissue.blogspot.com

When will they learn.

Mark Hubbard's picture

This is unsurprising:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/...

Two of the four leaders allegedly behind the al Qaeda plot to blow up a Northwest Airlines passenger jet over Detroit were released by the U.S. from the Guantanamo prison in November, 2007, according to American officials and Department of Defense documents. Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for the Northwest bombing in a Monday statement that vowed more attacks on Americans.

American officials agreed to send the two terrorists from Guantanamo to Saudi Arabia where they entered into an "art therapy rehabilitation program" and were set free, according to U.S. and Saudi officials.

You wouldn't find anything as laughable as that second paragraph on the most fringe of comedy sites. 'Art rehabilitation' for terrorists. Yeah right.

Almost-sense at Noodlefood

gregster's picture

"So in summary, I would say that allowing unchecked immigration of a hostile population into America is indeed suicide. But Objectivism does not advocate that. It just advocates that in principle, immigration should not be based on culture or race. Of course if you are at war with Russia it would be stupid to allow Russians unchecked into the USA. The same with Cuba and the same with the Islamic world.

However, contrary to the conservative argument that it is impossible to separate good Muslims from evil ones, I think it is not that hard to do so.

[Why bother? There's a great risk of error.]

It is not surprising that conservatives [and Objectivists!] think Muslims cannot be differentiated into good and evil Muslims. Many (or should I say most?) conservatives are collectivists who think civilization and morality are a function of culture and race and not a product of the content of an individual's character."

From muslim 'Sahid.'

A good or evil Muslim, a good or evil Catholic? The more dangerous one is the unmodified savage.

Peace on earth...

Kevin's picture

Maybe we (the "West") could get a few "tips" from the "professionals".

"The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. (Sharon may not have been joking.)

THis culture really is doomed, isn't it?

Henry Emrich's picture

Linz: stirring rhetoric, like Zantovich said, but no real follow-through from either of you:

Zantovich: what the hell kind of nonsense is this? "Parodies 10 times more offensive would appear on government stationary?" The absolute last thing anybody needs is Governmental propagandizing. Governments that muck about in the "war of ideas" aren't a good thing--- EVEN IF they happen to advocate or do what somebody happens to consider the "right" things. The U.S.A. is pretty much strangled at this point, by our benevolent State Overseers in the FCC busily attempting to enforce PC speech codes and "communications decency". The absolute last thing anybody needs is the damned Government -- any damned government -- propagandizing it's subjects, for ANY reasons.

This should be a private matter for the PRIVATE sector (free individuals.) The most obvious solution would be for those of you who claim to be so concerned about this collosal non-issue to actually pony up and be KASS enough to DO SOMETHING about it:

Here's a little tip:
A few years ago, a guy calling himself DJ Dangermouse made something called a "mashup" of Jay-Z's rap 'music' and the Beatles "White Album". Sony attempted to have a "cease and desist" order put on it, and almost immediately huge numbers of whiny collegiate "protesters" began donating huge amounts of storage space and bandwidth, and spreading the thing far and wide as a protest for "free speech". Now why is it that a bunch of whiny vaguely-Leftist College kids can manage to have enough balls to do something like that over an essentially inconsequential piece of musical ephermera, but so-called defenders of the "right to offend" can't be bothered to post the damn cartoons, and spread 'em around like mad? Saturate the Net with the damn things, I say. Make the point that we in the West -- unlike the centralized, State-controlled media so many other places -- will, as a point of general principle -- spread "offensive" material around like a bad case of the clap. Take some risk, for once -- pony up, and put your bandwidth where your mouth is, I say.
You should make it a point to have the "offensive" cartoons on the fron page of SOLOpassion from now until an indeterminate time in the futre, if for no other reason than to spit in the bastards' eyes.

Outstanding

Kyrel Zantonavitch's picture

Outstanding article, Lindsay. Fine and stunning rhetoric.

But I don't know if "shaming" is the best term and concept here. Certainly the world of Islam needs to be utterly morally and intellectually condemned: it should be attacked in words of exceptional insult, fury, and hatred.

One way or the other the West has to be much more self-confident and aggressive in this battle of words and wills. We need to really take it to the enemy. Unfortunately, we seem to be doing close to zero.

In an ideal world, all 12 of those cartoons would be reprinted in every newspaper on earth. Then parodies 10 times more offensive would be. These, in turn, would appear on government stationary, stamps and flags flown in Muslim states. The cartoonists would be internationally feted heroes. And so on.

But when will our leaders ever use Lindsay's passionate rhetoric and reproach them in the way they infinitely deserve? Will we wait 50 years? Only when we call them savage and barbaric to their face will they ever feel the humiliation and dishonor necessary to motivate them to change their ways. Western sensitivity and PC delicacy to the theoretical "good" Muslims is essentially suicidal here. IMHO, there's not the slightest chance for "peace on earth, goodwill toward men" until the West and Islam have some extremely unpleasant, ugly, and obscene confrontations.   

Tolerance has it's limits; appeasers have no limits.

Rowlf's picture

~~ Tolerance is like being polite or, 'civil' if you will. It's a 'putting up with' something or other.

~~ The problem with any stressed advocacy of it (other than teaching children about being polite), is that, especially nowadays what with diversity-acceptance being stressed, limits are never even hinted at, much less defined.

~~ Why is it that some 'sympathizing' idiots who ought to know better advocate tolerance for those violently-oriented to their intolerance-of-disagreement? (Here, I specify 'disagreement' as including a lack of respect [aka reverence] for certain beliefs)?

~~ Criticizers, whether satirists (ie: cartoonists and/or writers) and documentarians (movie-makers) show no reverence (aka 'respect') to their subject in their speech...hence, show a lack of tolerance. They are to be castigated? Whereas killers and killer-threateners of the criticizers show a lack of tolerance in their violent actions, and, they are too be 'understood'? (Whatever happened to the old arguments about 'violence'? Oh; 9/11, right; guess that old argument's moot now.)

~~ Tolerance without limits is nothing other than appeasement (and we all oughtta know where THAT leads; unfortunately, too many of us don't, while the killers do). It's an enshrining of a Schmoo (check it out) as an ideal.

~~ At some point, even 'tolerators' should not be...tolerated.

LLAP

J:D

 

P.S: Anyone going to go see "United 93"?  I understand it might be a bit strong, but, it supposedly has full backing of ALL families involved.___N-E-V-E-R F-O-R-G-E-T

Tolerance is great - in fact

Duncan Bayne's picture

Tolerance is great - in fact it's the one of the cornerstones of a free, vibrant society.

Tolerance does not include tolerance of the initiation of force or fraud against others. I'm quite prepared to tolerate anyone's religious beliefs, until they start trying to abrogate my rights or the rights of others.

"Your speech offends me and the rest of the Islamic community!" - fine, I can tolerate that, just like I tolerate people who object to me eating meat or riding fast motorcycles. By listening politely, debating politely, or simply ignoring them as the mood takes me.

"Your speech offends me and the rest of the Islamic community, so I'm going to murder you!" - that should not be tolerated, that should be denounced in the harshest terms possible.

Bravo, Lindsay, for doing exactly that!

I fear from all this that we

John M Newnham's picture

I fear from all this that we are slipping into politically correct totalitarianism, and a world where we walk around under an umbrella of tolerance, and respect, and (gasp) diversity trainings/brainwashing. Fortunately this fear is shortlived, when I read a piece like this, which lifts my flagging spirits like a shot of B12.

Thank you Lindsay.

"In the name of humanity,

John M Newnham's picture

"In the name of humanity, Islam must be put to death. Not by nuking, but by shaming. Not by the sword (though if the maggots leave us no alternative we should not hesitate to use it) but by the word."

Th love of truth, the willingness to stand up and be counted. This is a wonderful, impassioned call to action for all who value life and civilization to walk the talk.

John

Farrar's Blog

Lindsay Perigo's picture

It's an irony that Farrar, a nervous-nelly weasel-worder, should host the most visited NZ repository of e-opinionation when he's so frightened of opinions himself. As with most of the half-wits posting there, the part he would have most difficulty with is this: "Death to Islam—and all forms of tyranny over the minds of men." Farrar used to be a spin doctor of some kind for the Nats. Might still be for all I know. His biggest nightmare would be Don Brash coming out with something bold like that. Hell, it might just win votes!

I made a post. I read

Landon Erp's picture

I made a post.

I read something about Zionism and realized it wouldn't be worth it to stay around. Nothing like seeing complaints about "Zionism" and complaints about someone being a nazi in the same discussion.

---Landon

It all basically comes back to fight or flight.

The debate on David Farrar's

Duncan Bayne's picture

The debate on David Farrar's blog is heating up.

Posters are (intentionally, I suspect) confusing calls for a war of ideas with a call for physical extermination - which on the positive side is a sign of desparation, for it means they have no answer to our actual arguments.

Perhaps some SOLOists could head over & set them straight?

Good Job, Perigo

Dan Edge's picture

Your writing style is particularly suited to this topic. I think you're right: a good "shaming" of the islamic community would go a long way. If more folks went beyond the call of duty deriding any idiot who threatens murder over a cartoon, things would be moving in the right direction.

It would be great if we heard politicians or local leaders say something like this: "I saw you people today holding up signs threatening murder over cartoons, and I want you to know I think it's ridiculous, childish, brutish, and shameful." I gurantee this would have an effect on the more moderate, going with the grain-type muslims who participate in the protests.

--Dan Edge

I've restored this briefly ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Because it's causing riots in the streets of NZ. Or at least on a popular blog:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/arch...

Evidently I frightened the horses, & not a few Islamo-fascists as well.

Aaaaargh!!!!!!!!!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

The Dominion Post, source of the wonderful editorial I quoted, has now apologised to the local Muslim community. I am shaking with disgust. On top of that, we hear today that the National Party is going to oppose visits by U.S. nuclear-POWERED warships. Every which way one turns is nothing but filth & those who appease it. I feel nauseated beyond words. Phil, I'm of a mind to get one of those dogs & set it upon any "human being" I encounter. Ugh!

Well done Mr Perigo!

Phil's picture

What a great post Mr Perigo. Mind you I will confess you have never submitted an article I did not agree with or at the very least enjoy immensely.
The rights and freedoms of modern secular society must be defended by both word and deed, now more so than ever.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
-- Thomas Jefferson
With respect to the tea towel man outside your door may I suggest you get a big hungry dog? I have an old English Mastiff called Max. He is 10 months old, 76kg and growing every day, great nose on him(smell Plastique at a 100 yards!), friendly and well trained (top of the class at dog obedience). Best of all Mastiffs are an ancient war dogs bred across centuries for combat...

Wonderful stuff

Scott Wilson's picture

Even the Aussie Labour Foreign Affairs spokesman is being uncompromising though Beazley is being mealy mouthed about it. I am outraged that Brash and Hide have said nothing.

New Zealand will, of course, simply be concerned about trade, like it is with Iran - it wont matter a jot as long as butter gets sold. Clark spinelessly sought official advice before commenting - showing she has no political gut reaction to the events at all. She doesn't rely on advice on things that matter to her - she just let the whimpering diplomats at MFAT tell her to stand back from it all.

This issue has me riled up enormously - partly because I live in a city where the Islamofascists spread their murderous intent and actually implement it and partly because the scum happily publish cartoons showing Jews to be Nazis, and do nothing about the executions, bombings and other violence people of THEIR religion commit against their own people and other people. I can't think of much else to put on my blog (http://libertyscott.blogspot.com) for now.

If only Voltaire had been right, and the Bible (and Koran) had become historical curiosities one century after he died.

Funny you should say that ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Jody:

Ha! You're just glad others got on that suicide-bomber list of targets!

After I'd done FreeRad stuff & Daily Linz 23 today I left my apartment for supplies. On the street outside my apartment block a clapped-out car driven by a bearded, swarthy man wearing a tea-towel on his head was cruising slowly back & forth. I swear I'm not making this up! I thought to myself, "Shit! Orion Reasoner was right!" Smiling

Robt W: You're very welcome!

Bravo Linz

Robert's picture

Bravo Linz!

Absolutely spot-on and timely. And well done (for once) the NZ media. And the Danes too! Whenever fascism calls they always surprise.

From http://www.auschwitz.dk/Denmar...
"It's one of the great untold stories of World War II: In 1943, in German-occupied Denmark, the Danish people find out that all 7,500 Danish Jews are about to be rounded up and deported to German concentration camps. Danish citizens spontaneously make their own decision: it's not going to happen. And it didn't. Risking their own lives, the Danes quickly rallied round to save their fellow citizens, and almost all of the country's Jews were able to escape the clutches of the Nazis and find refuge in neutral Sweden."

Sorry for not chiming in sooner. That bloody Brokeback Mountain movie had me too depressed to do anything Sunday. It was so bad that only Spencer Tracy could (Inherit the Wind) bring me back from the brink!

"Derek, Julian, Jody, Mark

Jody Gomez's picture

"Derek, Julian, Jody, Mark Dow—thanks for the support. (Mark—great to hear from a SOLO newbie!)"

Ha! You're just glad others got on that suicide-bomber list of targets!
"Academia is the #1 respository of Saddamy & apologetics for Islamo-fascism in the form of cultural relativism."

Hey now, my wife assigns Ayn Rand. You are right though, I'm absolutely dumbfounded at the ideas these students pick up from their professors. I actually expect this though, what I'm more amazed about is their complete passivity to such ideas. At least in America, I'm coming to believe that the problem, and a grave one at that, begins desperately early with childen at the hands of government education. Jag-off professors are a dime a dozen, and intellectually, easily taken to the mat for the count. What is scary, is that these college kids are not even aware of the intellectual battle, or that they have conscious minds of their own.

Thanks!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Derek, Julian, Jody, Mark Dow—thanks for the support. (Mark—great to hear from a SOLO newbie!)

Jim—kudos on an unusually UNambivalent post! Smiling

Shayne—thanks for posting the Hitchens link.

Casey—yes, change within academia would be good, but like you, I suspect, I'm not holding my breath. Academia is the #1 respository of Saddamy & apologetics for Islamo-fascism in the form of cultural relativism. And I don't think this generation of Muslims deserves any vicarious credit for the salvaging of Aristotle all those centuries ago! Smiling

Erik—public reaction in New Zealand has been roughly 50/50. No mainstream politician, alas, has stood up unequivocally for freedom of speech. The demonstrators here sported placards that were less virulent than the overseas ones, but their screaming and general demeanour were just as much those of "empty-headed, malevolent umbrage-takers."

I have the strong impression that Americans in particular have no grasp of how urgent the situation is. Julian's post about a "lost opportunity" is particularly apposite.

Linz

I am spending precious computer time...

Jody Gomez's picture

...to praise this piece, to shout it's praise. Lately my time on the comp has been sparse(the totalitarian woman of the house is studying for her PhD major and minor exams), this makes it all the more valuable that I spend it wisely. This is great Linz.

Check this out;

Titan's picture

Linz, I heard that around

Titan's picture

Linz, I heard that around 700 Muslim's protested in the streets of Auckland recently over the Mohammed cartoons. What's the reaction by Kiwi's?

Dismay

sjw's picture

Hitchens pegged my feelings about this: "It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts", on the other hand it's good to see that there are at least some people in the general culture who think like Hitchens, so thanks for posting that Derek.

By the way, here's the link to his article: http://www.slate.com/id/2135499/. (And if anyone knows of links to others writing with some sense on the matter, please post the links!)

Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword

James Heaps-Nelson's picture

A while back in the early 90's when we still basically had an appeasement policy toward the terrorists, Tom Clancy wrote an Op-Ed entitled "The Tiger is Clawing on Our Face". This was a riff on the claim that we shouldn't get involved in fighting terrorism against Israel because we would "wake the tiger"

He included an anecdote about how the Soviets had had their own Iran hostage crisis, but it was much shorter. The Sovs for all of their evil brutality knew how to deal with terrorists. When their hostages were kidnapped in Iran, the kidnapped a high ranking Iranian official, cut off his ear and sent it to the Iranians. They got their hostages back quickly.

The French for all of their ridiculous appeasement within the country have fairly effective assassination squads internationally to kill terrorists with a unique MO. They kill the bastards and bury them without a trace and give no press to the event. The effectiveness is clear. Without knowing what happened to their comrade, the terrorists cannot claim him as a martyr and fund raising vehicle.

We must match the enemy's resolve with force and mind. In the realm of ideas and on the battlefield and let the enemy know that we will do whatever it takes to defeat them.

Jim

Great stuff, Linz. I'm as

Derek McGovern's picture

Great stuff, Linz. I'm as revolted as you are by the mealy-mouthed utterings of the US State Department, coupled with the self-censorship of most of the US media. One of the few US-based commentators willing to stick his neck out has been Christopher Hitchens, who asks in his latest column: what did the Department mean by " 'unacceptable'...that [the cartoons] should be forbidden"? In a civil society, he writes, "free expression trumps the emotions of anyone to whom free expression might be inconvenient. It is depressing to have to restate these obvious precepts, and it is positively outrageous that the [US] administration should have discarded them at the very first sign of a fight."

Sorry for this post!

Mark Dow's picture

Any further comments I have about Krishna2 have already been made!

Superb!

Mark Dow's picture

Great Post Lindsay! Sorry you have to have flies like Krisn2 buzzing around your head though.

A lost opportunity

JulianD's picture

Thanks Lindsay. I have little to add that has not been said already. I fear that western governments and in many cases journalists have missed the best opportunity that they have had for a while to draw a line as to what sets western civilisation apart from those Islamic savages. This was an opportunity to say loud and clear - That western civilisation promotes individual freedom - and that individuals will be free in our countries to promote ideas which others may not necessarily agree with. It is indeed sad that this opportunity was lost. What we have seen are governments rushing to pass judgement on the cartoons (something which it should have no opinion on) in an attempt to placate these savages. This is myopic thinking and this appeasement will have terrible consequences in the coming years.

Islam - as Lindsay wrote - is not deserving of respect.

Julian

Hi,

krishna2's picture

Not my picture here...smiling...

 I am sure every living 6.5 billion souls today is convinced that there is no God -any supernatural

entity,that is!

 The issue here is about having respect for the great minds regardless of their Errors!...SMILING...

Reality will always correct the wrong ideas but one should never insult the great people...smiling...

They will always accept their mistakes in thier next birth...laughing...

 Would you insult Gail Wyand?...

Religion

Casey's picture

Religion, in the form of monotheistic totalitarianism over the moral quality of the individual, requiring the relinquishment of his reason and demanding intellectual obedience (faith) in its place, is a scourge to humanity designed as a hand-maiden of tyranny. It has been tamed only by a few governments in the history of mankind. Centuries ago, Christianity lobotomized the western world and the Islamic world salvaged the works of Aristotle from that religious orgy of destruction. We owe the preservation of the seeds of Western Civilization to the Muslims.

And now, as history reverses itself and the true spirit of religion, faith, reasserts its totalitarian self in Islam, after being momentarily tamed in Western Civilization, freedom of the press to characterize the connection between Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism is met with threats of terrorism by Islamic fundamentalists.

Crowds of Muslims burned down embassies because they heard that Korans were being burned -- even though every embassy in a Muslim country contains copies of the Koran, which they burned.

Of course, it's madness, and perhaps it has gotten so absurd that the civilized world will recognize a difference that needs to now be addressed and that modern theory, multi-culturalism specifically, has glossed over.

An example comes to mind. In protest, a Muslim organization that represents Muslims in Europe is now publishing cartoons depicting such scenes as Anne Frank in bed with Adolf Hitler. The difference is this: No one will march for violence against the cartoonists.

That reality has to be recognized at the academic level now.

That is my hope.

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