The Libertarianz, SOLO, & Saddamy

Duncan Bayne's picture
Submitted by Duncan Bayne on Sun, 2008-03-09 13:49.

I admit that I was wrong & unfair about the Libz - having gone back and reread your latest press releases, it is clear that the party has definitely taken a new & fresh direction over the past year. Certainly, my perception of the Libz is out of date, & it was unfair of me to criticize the party as it stands now for the mistakes made in the past. In particular that last presser by Mark is brilliant.

I still think that Paul was bang on the money about the Libz' public image - because, like my own misconceptions about the current state of the party, it's based on the bad times, not the good. It's clear though that if you carry on with what you're doing, the public image will come right, because what you're doing is bloody good. Even things of apparently minor significance like fixing up the mailing list will have a great effect on the 'rank and file' members I mentioned - the kind who donate $10 and occasionally write a letter to the editor.

The fact remains though that a number of posters here were really quite amazingly rude to Paul (not Craig; your posts were always the model of professional courtesy) & reacted to perfectly valid suggestions & criticisms with an outright attack. Paul was, quite clearly, angry with the way he'd been dealt with by the Libz and SOLO in general, and still took the time to make a number of suggestions (many of which I agree with, even if they've already been actioned) for improvement. He then got further dumped on, left, and then managed to get dumped on after he'd left.

To be honest, something that's bothered me for a while about SOLO is the response to disagreement. Now, I realise that dissent is actively welcomed here; I'm not suggesting that anyone here tries to shut down debate. The problem is that the response to such dissent can often consist of a series of insults & personal attacks. To give a personal example: recently I reached a new position on the War in Iraq:

1. It isn't being fought in the national interests of America, and never was intended to be by those who planned it.

2. The focus on terrorism - misplaced I called it, and still call it - is ignoring the far more real threat to the West, which is the imposition of Sharia on the West by means of the very systems that hitherto have been used to support Western values. Terrorism is at most a side-show to this, a way of scaring the most outspoken critics into silence.

It took me quite a while to get around to posting that on SOLO, and I still haven't got around to explaining my reasoning & conclusions in full. I procrastinated for a while but in all honesty, my primary concern was the reception I'd receive. That concern turned out to be well founded; my friendship with Lindsay was ended (explicitly, by him, and to my sorrow) over the matter, and I was judged to be disgusting, a traitor, a near-Saddamite, and a bastard. Quite a list, for one change of opinion - and that, only in a matter of application of the principles that I still completely uphold.


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Boo hoo...

Robert's picture
Submitted by Robert on Tue, 2008-03-11 05:40.

"The problem is that the response to such dissent can often consist of a series of insults & personal attacks."

As I recall, the last two swipes instigated at Libz were headed up with attention grabbing headlines that declaring (essentially) that "Libz = Useless gits! Vote for John Key."

Coming to SOLO and making such a public declaration is the same as walking into a biker bar and pissing on the bar... Paul was spoiling for a verbal stouch and he got one.

If he wants to whine about being called a few names, maybe he shouldn't have started out as he did. Why is it that Linz and PC have to play nice when their efforts are being impugned by someone who's done next to nothing by comparison?

By someone who professes sympathy with our goals but refuses to engage because he doesn't like the phraseology?

By someone who freely insults the title of the ~only~ Constitution ever written for the People's Republic of Aoteoroa but gets snotty when PC and Linz return fire?

By someone who's suggested 'alternative' -- voting for National -- will only make things worse... Something Paul could see for himself if only he would take the critical eye he used on Libz and used it to match up National's MPs with their voting records, their past policies and proposed ones.

Be as critical of Libz as you like. But don't even try to sell me National in their stead and expect me to retain any respect for your intellect what-so-ever. And when you try to do both simultaneously, expect me to treat your post for exactly what it is: A party political broadcast for National and Nanny State.

Dissent my arse.

Trolling by a John Key-flunkie more like!


Duncan

Lindsay Perigo's picture
Submitted by Lindsay Perigo on Sun, 2008-03-09 20:30.

The Libz haven't changed direction—the reason I specified press releases within the last year was just to make it easier. Paul objected to terms like "nazi" and "Neanderton." Well, the leader's press releases within the past twelve months on the party pill ban referred to him as "Banderton," which I thought was entirely appropriate. Paul would find that an excuse not to get involved.

Mark's presser is a SOLO one, not Libz.

You got short shrift from me re Iraq because you came out and advocated a publicly timetabled withdrawal (just as the Americans were getting on top of the situation), a position I certainly do view as treasonous and disgusting for reasons I've rehearsed here well enough. I'd recommend addressing those reasons, not wallowing in umbrage over my indignation. Without going back to check, I don't believe I ended our friendship over this, but rather helpfully suggested you not come near me for a while. And we've had perfectly cordial private contact since then, so I'm not sure what the big deal is here.

It's always been the case that, while folk here are free, nay encouraged, to dissent, they might get an earful from me on certain issues. They give an earful back (check out Riggenbach on the Saddamite Solecisms thread). You've always taken that in your stride, so again, I'm puzzled by this turn of events. The Brandroids at Lying, incidentally, where *no* dissent is allowed, will lap this up.

Barbara Branden once said, when she realised she wasn't going to succeed in doing a makeover of me, something like, "Very well. He can go on being Lindsay Perigo. I shall go on being Barbara Branden." That's a good approach, especially if you're on Lindsay Perigo's turf. If I were someone else here and I didn't like Linz but enjoyed being here, I'd just ignore him.

I have zero respect for Paul—he's shown himself to be just a sissy and a whiner. He started this scrap but didn't have the balls to stick around and finish it. But overall I have huge respect for you. I wish you'd repair to the sterner stuff of which I know you're made.

Some folk should spend some time in Parliament to get an idea of what it'd be like if they ever got elected. SOLO is a tea-party next to that stuff.

Linz


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