On the subject of the list of chaps for the highjump...what about:

1. Socialists.

2. Tories.

3. Gymnasium enthusiasts.

4. Trade Union leaders

5. Teetotalers

Surely dishing out a good kicking to these sort of chaps is doing God's work?

http://nzcapitalist.blogspot.com/

Yes Glenn it was a little laboured but I laughed at some bits. Credit for her effort no matter how inaccurate. Captn underpants nicks from Hubbard.

Your "bit of fun" lacked authenticity and generosity, two of the Landmark hallmarks. Unlike Lindsay's parody, yours is laboured, bitchy and devoid of genuine humour, revealing I believe, the need for a Forum refresher course, where you may confess your sins to the group and make the necessary distinctions.

She is lovely!! And I am really happy to see you all so gallant. It's just a bit of fun - just as I am in no way offended by Linz's offering which is also quite different from my character! As you will see if and when you meet me.  But I can see what blocks he is using to build the picture of me and I think it is really funny.  I am doing the same thing in reply but clearly the humour was lost to some!! My apologies to those too serious to see it. 

I thought I had seen it all.

When is the next solo reunion in Auckland?

Rosie: wait till you meet Olivia. If you think she’s flakey, feather brained and possesses a character the size of a pea - then you’re in for a pleasurable surprise.

Get that bloody photo up and refrain from such nonsense.

Ugly on the outside too, I wager...

Another little fictional conversation:

 Lindsay:  I say,
Olivia, would you care to join me for a value swoon? The poignant tear jerking
Tchaikovsky piano concerto #1 is being played in Wellington. We could cry
poignantly together?

 Olivia:  Oh,
Linz, it sounds wunderbar but you know my ethics and values – to myself and not
to others – and I think I may be shifting. I am really groaning about it but I
am able to be objective in my choices. Honest Linz. AND I really have  to find work. That is, work for others
but I’m doing it for myself, Linz, promise!

 Lindsay:  That’s
ok Claudia…er…Olivia…er (aside: what is this woman’s name? Does she know? Do I
know?  Does anyone know?) I know
you wouldn’t say a thing to upset me, you gorgeous looking sycophant you. Maybe
I’ll just fly up to share a little coq au vin instead. Just give me a moment to
step in to my captain underpants outfit.

 Olivia:  Oh,
Linz, I’ve only had time to prepare a Shepherd’s Pie.*  I was so distracted by that marvellous
piece you recommended that I should listen to…so deep and brooding…and then I
remembered I was supposed to be narrowing my choices for pleasure – life is
short after all - and became so confused I just decided to have fish and chips
instead.

 Lindsay: Oh really? 
Well, listening to something that I recommended sounds like a pretty
good reason to be distracted to me. And at least it isn’t lentils. Besides,
(and this is not a footnote), I only said coq au vin because I like to say rude
words and then pretend I’m refined in my tastes and can speak French like the
well educated aristocracy in the glorious Romantic Period.

 Olivia:  Oh,
Linz, you are so wonderful I forget that I am the silliest girl in the world
with the prettiest face!

 Lindsay: Yes, well, keep flattering me and I won’t notice it
either. Oh, damn. They shot me down over Waiouru. Filth! Oh well, hot chips and Slayer will have to do for a
mind altering experience.

 Olivia:  Oh,
Linz. Let me know how it goes. I perish the thought of you amidst the masses
but if you can do it, Linz, I can….and will.  For you, Linz, but not those nasty intelligent people whose
words I simply won’t even read anymore.

• Your
  father was a spy?  What sort
  of spy?

He spied on
shepherds.

Oh! He was a
shepherd spy.

(Spike Milligan)

Mind you Glenn, if this guy could orientate the Moslem world toward just suicide bombing plants, it would be quite an improvement.

But not as funny as this guy...

The following conversation between Richard Goode, PhD, and Rosie Purchas of the Landmark Forum is fictional, though any resemblance between it and real life, including the conversation on the Music of the Gods thread, is NOT entirely coincidental.

Rosie: I've just scored two tickets for the Slayer concert. Wanna come with?

Richard: Cool purchase, Purchas. Yeah, I'm up for that. I've been hangin' out for a good pounding.

Rosie: All good, Goode. I can't wait to open my mind to a new experience.

Richard: Oh, fuck that, Purchas. I just want some ol' fashioned anger and hate and cathaaaaaaaaaaarse-is, man!

Rosie: Oooo, I love it when you talk dirty. K. Cool. I'll put some bling in my nose.

Richard: Yeah man. And pack some of those cool carrot sticks. If you don't feel alive after a good carrot stick there's something wrong with you. They rock.

Rosie: But you're sitting on them, remember?!

Richard: That's how I know they rock. Hmmmm. Guess we'd better not eat them, then—didn't Perigo accuse us of eating poop? He'd be insufferable!

Rosie: Bummer!

What fun!

When lacking in substance, Mr. Goode, it's always pretty lame to try mindless repetition!

And -- of all things -- is there really a serious attempt to defend vegetarianism going on here?

Eating in general sounds like it's anti-life from Dr. Goode's perspective, a curiously perverse one, as usual.

Is a lion hunting down a gazelle acting in an anti- or pro-life way?

And, gee, while we're at it: is gobbling up the nuts and grains some other animals need to eat moral? Some simply cannot eat meat as we can... (Just look at your teeth for a few seconds!)

What if we have to kill the plant to eat it? Is that anti-life, too?

Are the huge, lumbering non-meat-eaters, like bison or elephants, anti-life when they lay waste to a forest or a field, as it is their very natures to do? Or -- as seems obvious -- pro-life -- for the elephant?

When we use the killed animal (or plant) for food, clothing, etc., aren't we also acting in a very pro-life way?

And, just as we encourage and cultivate plant (and even microbial) life which we can use -- from flowers to yeasts to grains -- so, we encourage, breed and foster a range of animal life -- from pets to race horses to dairy cattle to wild animals we still can enjoy hunting.

The whole process is pro-life.

And, btw, as meat consumption has increased in the West over the last two centuries, so has life expectancy increased. I'm not sure the stats cited could not reflect some other factors associated more than commonly with vegetarians. For example, are they less likely to smoke, as I'd wager they are?

As hominids emerged from australopithecines, from the arboreal setting to the savannah, their diets altered to include more and more meat -- and considerably less by way of veggies. The very tools which track the development of hominid intelligence reveal that they were cutting and tearing and stabbing instruments -- first, with which to scavenge and, then, to hunt animals. Many believe that human skills at abstract communication also developed concurrently with the needs of the hunt. Upright walking itself gave the advantage of freed up hands... free to do what exactly? Use those sharp, new tools out on the barren plains, perhaps?

In any event, as the amount of meat in the diet of hominids increased, so did their brain size.

No, this still isn't a moral argument, Dr. Goode, but you've yet actually to engage in any serious discussion of ethics, so what's the point?

I am reminded of the exquisite Chapter VII of Rand's Anthem, the one which begins, "It has been a day of wonder, this, our first day in the forest..."

When the hero first feels hunger, and then kills a bird, he writes: "We made a fire, we cooked the bird, and we ate it, and no meal has ever tasted better to us. And we thought suddenly that there was a great satisfaction to be found in the food which we need and obtain by our own hand. And we wished to be hungry again and soon, that we might know again this strange new pride in eating..."

I'd have thought that a Doctor of philosophy would know the difference between fact and opinion.

Fact: We have no fucking idea what portion of these 'premature deaths' you refer can be blamed on consumption of meat: be it raw, medium, well-done or burnt to a crisp.

Fact: According to Craig Ventor, whom I've just heard speaking, his research demonstrates that in genetic terms we differ from one another by as much as 1%. A third of the Caucasian human population is missing a gene that helps deal with environmental toxins. The other third has one copy of that gene and the balance of the Caucasian male population has more than one copy.

Faced with interpreting the results of statistical correlation studies against this background of genetic diversity (whose surface we've barely scratched yet) I can only conclude that you Dr Goode ~and~ your antagonists are completely and utterly full of shit when you argue about which diet is the best for humans as a collective species.

Your opposing opinions on this issue cancel each other out.

And the only redeeming feature of this thread is the humour and the skills of Chef Gordon Ramsey. Both of which I might add were brought to the party by the carnivores.

I have reached the conclusion Dr Goode that you need to remove the turnip from your arse and have fun with your carnivorous tormentors.

This: "Meat-eating is profoundly, irredeemably anti-life." isn't funny, it's moronic.

Is this a cranky post? Yes it is. I just had vegetable soup for lunch there's a correlation for ya.

PS: If you want to do something about my crankiness send me a gift certificate to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse . I'd go there myself but I'm poor and eating meat the way it's supposed to be eaten is expensive.

Will someone please pass the satire to Rosie and Dr Goode so they can put a liberal dose on the mung bean burgers.

I'm vegetarian by proxy - all the steers and lambs I eat are vegetarian. And the kangaroo I ate in Australia.

Ramsay shows us what life is all about:

What is incontrovertible at this point is that vegetarians are death-worshippers

Nothing, it seems, could be further from the truth. It is meat-eaters who are death-worshippers! Not only do they kill and eat other Tetrapods, in so doing they kill themselves, consigning themselves to early graves by their irrational dietary choices.

Meat-eating is profoundly, irredeemably anti-life.

I would have thought that people who believe in freedom of choice would consider one's choice of diet of little consequence rather than a point of confrontation.

Having said that, in defence of vegetarians, a 1999 metastudy compared six major studies from western countries and found that the mortality ratio was the lowest in fish eaters (0.82) followed by vegetarians (0.84) and occasional meat eaters (0.84), and was then followed by regular meat eaters (1.0) and vegan (1.0). So much for Mr Valliant's seemingly detrimental comparison of vegans and meat eaters!

In "Mortality in British vegetarians", it was concluded that "British vegetarians have low mortality compared with the general population." British vegetarians were also found to have a generally high socio-economic status.   If it could be said that a generally high socio-economic status implies a generally more intelligent bunch of people then possibly the various animal food safety scares over recent years have led to increased numbers of people choosing a semi-vegetarian or vegetarian diet. eg Avian influenza in poultry, foot and mouth in sheep, PCBs in farmed salmon, mercury in fish, generally high  dioxin concentrations in animal products, and artificial growth hormones, antibiotics, BSEs, also known as Mad Cow Disease, in cows.

My own opinion is that people eat far too much generally in Western countries and these gros gourmands are more often than not non-vegetarians.  Enough is as good as a feast.

I've always held vegetarians in a suspended state of suspicion. We were born with incisors for fucksake ~ use them!!

I recently had an argument with one of *them*, who insisted that a preemptive strike on Iran was a violation of the NIOF principle. He couldn't see that Ahmadinejad's stated intention to break the principle was the actual initiation - and that an invasion was a matter of self defence.

Pea-brain indeed.

My guess is that Disin needs to get a good 24 oz. Porterhouse in him.

And I presume you're not joking this time either? I know you know that being virtuous in this sense is doing that which adds value in order to sustain one's life. We tried once before with you and your 'house which faced alternatives.' Your house cannot act virtuously either.

Is it alright for you Richard that animals have no qualms eating each other? Are they immoral in doing so?

it's not only "morally acceptable" to kill and eat other animals -- it's a virtuous activity.

I'm curious, too. Do you have a serious argument for this?! One without flaws - at least, none that I can spot - like all your other arguments?

This was no more a serious argument than was Linz's, and, of course, you've yet to point out single error in any of my other arguments.

But, yeah, it's not only "morally acceptable" to kill and eat other animals -- it's a virtuous activity. And, yeah, you wouldn't be here at all without such activity.

Lots of tetrapods eat other tetrapods, Richard, they make the yummiest of foods -- but I am curious: you actually have non-tetrapod friends?

If the story of the evolution of the human brain isn't enough to convince those poor weedy vegans...

Another Valliantly bad argument - this time for the conclusion that it is morally acceptable to kill and eat other animals.

Nice piece, good replies to the original posting too. I didn't think Cresswell would be vegetarian - must have been under the thumb? (Living with one.)

Yes, SOLOists, we have arrived at a defining moment. Whether 'tis nobler in the flesh to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous deadbeats, or to take arms against this sea of sapheads—and by opposing, end them.

Excellent, I can go get that pitch fork back out again. Will just have to wipe the steak blood from it, have a stiff drink to harden the resolve, (ahem, hide the uni degrees under the stairs), and I'll be ready for roll-call.

The vapid, mad, silly, stupid, heartless, brainless, fatuous, etc., must all be left to rot on its own, as it surely will. Do not grant these things such power over you, Linz -- for they are truly powerless to achieve anything, absent the sanction of those who know better.

(If the story of the evolution of the human brain isn't enough to convince those poor weedy vegans, then force-feeding them veal won't help in the ideas department, anyway. As Penn says, it just leaves more for the rest of us.)