Why you should vote Libertarianz

Elijah's picture
Submitted by Elijah on Thu, 2008-05-29 22:49

There is a lot of comment, most notably on Peter Cresswell's weblog, about the Libertarianz.

Many people say they are sympathetic to the party but have concerns about some people in the Libertarian party seeming like 'fanatics'.

The situation is that many chaps in the Libertarianz Party are 'natural contrarians', they instinctively want to do the opposite of other people; many also enjoy philosophical discussions on various matters and are always questioning why things are so and how they can be improved.

This is more a sign of intelligence and intellectual vigor than fanaticism.

Moving away from personalities and a broad range of opinions, and getting down to basics of day to day life, in answer to the question "Why should I vote Libertarianz" here are some reasons:

1. Cheap food.

2. Cheap petrol.

3. Cheap alcohol.

4. Abolition of the Resource Management Act.

5. No income taxes on most (or all) of your income.

6. We are the best friend of miners, fisherman and forestry workers, farmers and businessmen by greatly encouraging those activities.

7. Lower interest rates as we will stop the Reserve Bank Governor engaging in gross stupidity.

8. Those in the South Island will no longer have their taxes used to subsidise Auckland motorways.

9. Increased choices for users of healthcare and education services.

10. Public Servants will be servants of the public, not the Masters.

These are some of the main reasons you should vote Libertarianz, practical solutions to day to day problems.

People should decide what is really important, is it the implementation of those and other policies, or a few highly imaginative and entertaining debates undertaken by some members of the party?

The Libertarianz are the only party in New Zealand offering any of those policies and therefore the only 'choice' is between us and everybody else; between extremist left wing socialism or the Libertarianz.

 


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Spending, Saving and the 'Gone By Lunchtime' List

gregster's picture

Cresswell's Blog is getting so good I'm almost disappointed with The Free Radical when it comes out. By then I've read it all.

Peter Cresswell has come up

Elijah's picture

Peter Cresswell has come up with another list of reasons to vote Libertarianz...so it is all looking jolly splendid for anyone who needs reasons to decide for whom to vote at the General Election. 

Elitism, forever!

Thank you, Peter - and you also, Kasper!

mvardoulis's picture

Sadly my blood about the only thing I can offer you kiwi Libz at this point (still trying to stay afloat after a year of financial/personal upheaval - product of being in the center of this mortgage/credit/economic statist disaster). My hope is that any and all of your doubters still see the long-term gain of assisting Libz in any way they can ("good on you" as you say down there, Kasper!), and while it seems likely I'll be unable to help you in person this election - I fully expect your next national election in New Zealand will have live-in-person assistance from this resident of the People's Republic of California! Smiling

Serves my interests to show up for a long-overdue visit anyway, as I must eventually plant roots for what I see as the inevitable exodus of myself and as many of my family and friends as I can get over to your shores.

Peter: "And it's true, isn't

Kasper's picture

Peter: "And it's true, isn't it. People like Glenn and others don't have enough balls or integrity to stick up for what they say are their values. They talk a lot about what they say they believe in, yet do precisely squat about it"

It is true, but not the point this time or the last which Glen or I were raising. I wanted to steer clear of debate surrounding morals and principles as other factors discussed here needed addressing. Your ultimatum took trump last debate and the topics covered here were not able to be discussed.

I take your point as it is valid never the less. Actions in place of speech, I wish to help the libertarians tomorrow meeting people out in east Auckland and spreading libertarian ideas by distributing Samizdat which I do already Smiling Will talk to Eli tonight hopefully.

:-)

Peter Cresswell's picture

Your blood is worth bottling, Bro Vardo.

Libz may have a long road to the beehive

mvardoulis's picture

But for Galt's sake, my doubting kiwi friends, *start walking* - we're simply doomed here in the United Police States! What you have in the LibertariaNZ is a better model than *anything else in the world or anywhere else in history* for a truly principled (unlike the UPS LP) political party dedicated to individual liberty. How do you think all the lefty-socialist parties began in the mid-1800's only to rise to become the standard in the early to mid 1900's (FDR's example comes to mind)? It begins with grass-roots radicalism but so help me Galt if you stay with it and build, build, build *YOU END UP IN PARLIMENT!!!*

My final plea: be *thankful* you don't have a miserable "two-party" system where your effective choices are *always* right or left wing statists who are ultimately equal enemies of liberty.

And also...

Jameson's picture

"This puts Libz above Jim Anderton's party. Our 1999 result, .3%, would place us above Peter Dunne's party as well."

EXACTLY! Add to that ACT and the Maori. Single electorate parties, who have no chance of getting 5%, who are IN parliament...

I say again ~ and for the last time:

Jameson's picture

I've never said I was voting National; I'm endorsing any party that has committed to ditching the EFA and has a chance of getting into parliament and actually have a hand in doing so.

My point about the Kiwi Party is that the Libz could do worse than look to them as an example of how to raise your party's profile on the smell of an oily rag.

Unfortunately, Mitch, at present I can not afford to work pro bono for anyone.

And, Elijah, I wasn't quoting you.

I'm sorry my lack of support disappoints you, Peter.

Good luck.

Donations

Craig Milmine's picture

Anyone who would like to make a donation to libertarianz can find out how here:

http://www.libertarianz.org.nz...

Cheers

Craig

Glenn, I want to clarify

Elijah's picture

Glenn, I want to clarify something you said in your last post...(I may well have this quite wrong, and in that case I apologise in advance)...but when you said "..voting Libz will not achieve this because ~ by their own admission ~ getting into parliament is "not realistic..."

Is this a reference to our discussion a couple of weeks back, to 3:30 in the morning?

If so, you have misquoted me.

What I said...(in the presense of witnesses)...was the Libz "have no intention of actually governing New Zealand" ...and...the libz "will not enter into a coalition" (or words to that effect).

As for getting into Parliament, I said we were going all out for five months with the expectation of 120,000 votes, as entering a contest to lose is contrary to my nature (cannot speak for anyone else); and I always play to win; and if we fail so be it but it will not be for lack of trying. 

If your quotation was, in fact, not referring to our conversation, I once again apologise. Smiling

Elitism, forever!

Patronising twerp.

Peter Cresswell's picture

Patronising twerp.

"Promised"!?

Peter Cresswell's picture

They've "promised"! Oh you poor amateur.

Those would be the same unconscionable pieces of slime that stood on the steps of parliament and told the crowd they were vehemently opposed to the anti-smacking bill.

Perhaops you can tell us what the toe rags did just one week later, Glenn? (Here's a hint if your own memory is that short.)

These would be the same flaccid pieces of filth that said they would oppose the interest-free student loan with "every bone in their bodies."

Perhaps you can tell us where those bones are now, Glenn - in particular the 33 vertebrae.

A commitment from these vermin is worth even less than yours.

Glenn

Mitch's picture

"Unfortunately, voting Libz will not achieve this because ~ by their own admission ~ getting into parliament is "not realistic."

We have launched a campaign with every intention of getting into parliament. I think our ideas for the campaign are pretty damn good considering the budget we're on. However, we don't have the professional expertise that you would bring to the table.

As numerous people have said, Libz are strong on principle and policy, but not so good at selling the ideas. Glenn, you could single handedly rectify this by lending us your expertise.

Libz on eye to eye

Mitch's picture

this weekend Glenn.

http://www.solopassion.com/nod...

Though I disagree with it, I can understand your rationale for wanting your vote to "count". BUT...

Are you prepared to help the Libz out by lending your marketing expertise etc?

You say that Kiwi Party/"Kiwi Party" is doing a better job than us, well how about helping us rectify that? As Craig says, constructive feedback with an offer to help implement your suggestions is always welcome.

All going according to plan, you could vote according to your philosophy AND have your vote count. Plus you and PC could kiss and make up. Smiling

How bout it Glenn?

"How will it count, Glenn?"

Jameson's picture

It will count because my vote will help get a candidate into parliament who has promised to kill the EFA. Unfortunately, voting Libz will not achieve this because ~ by their own admission ~ getting into parliament is "not realistic."

Once again, Richard (I do wish you'd pay attention) please check your facts before making an assumption that I am voting National.

"Kiwi Party"...

Jameson's picture

... garnered 20,100 hits on my computer ~ just 3,800 short of "Libertarianz". Not bad for six month's work, you have to admit.

Anecdotally, I've yet to hear the Libz mentioned once on TV this year. I've lost count how many times I've heard about the Kiwi Party. In terms of raising their profile they're kicking ass.

I have spent much of this

Elijah's picture

I have spent much of this afternoon organising a couple of campaign related activities for Saturday/Sunday 14th/15th.

This will involve shaking hands and handing out leaflets at several shopping centres, supermarkets and other places where people are; and also Tamaki Drive which is very popular on a Sunday.

Just sing out if anyone wants to be of assistance, remembering of course that actually meeting some electors may just be the way to encourage them to vote Libertarianz. Smiling

Elitism, forever!

Ok Peter. If you say

Kasper's picture

Ok Peter. If you say so.

Your never wrong. Eye

"This is a matter smaller

Peter Cresswell's picture

"This is a matter smaller than the value of semantics. Without speech marks, Glen is correct. With them Peter is correct."

On the contrary. With speech marksit refers to the Kiwi Party. Without it refers to parties had by Kiwis.

A definite difference which Glenn would notbe unaware of.

PS: That you find an expectation that your actions match your rhetoric to be "bickering" perhaps says it all, eh?

Yeah right

Richard Goode's picture

If the latest poll results translate into election night results...

With 55% of the vote, including Glenn's, the National Party will govern alone.

With 54.9999% of the vote, excluding Glenn's, the National Party will govern alone.

I assure you my vote will count.

How will it count, Glenn?

This is a matter smaller

Kasper's picture

This is a matter smaller than the value of semantics. Without speech marks, Glen is correct. With them Peter is correct.
What is the point in bickering. The responses of Craig and Elijah have been constructive, informative and have shed a lot of light on this whole issue.
Something your snide remarks and petty bickering have not contributed too, Peter!

Not true

Peter Cresswell's picture

In fact the number of Google hits for the phrase "Kiwi Party" is 17,900.

So Glenn's "advice" is as much use as he has been.

Cheers, Peter Cresswell

* * * *

'NOT PC.'
**Setting Brushfires In People's Minds**

ORGANON ARCHITECTURE
**Integrating Architecture With Your Site**

"People like Glenn...

Jameson's picture

... and others don't have enough balls or integrity to stick up for what they say are their values. They talk a lot about what they say they believe in, yet do precisely squat about it."

Once again, I'm making a stand for Free Speech this year ~ and I assure you my vote will count.

0.2% is certainly better than I thought you'd be doing at this stage, so well done. However, if you're trying to bust a move "using the lost-cost advantages of the internet" you might learn something from the success of another party at large in the Google search engine:

591,000 for Kiwi Party (est. 2007)

24,500 for Libertarianz (est. 1995)

Thank you Craig

Kasper's picture

Thank you Craig Smiling

Craig

Robert's picture

SOLOmail me with a way I can donate from Overseas.

Cheers

Robert

Let it be noted ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

One News Colmar Brunton Poll, May 2008:

National 55 (up 1)
Labour 29 (down 6)
Greens 7 (up 3.3)
NZ First 4.4 (up 2.9)
Maori 2.5 (down 0.7)
Act 1.2 (up 0.1)
United Future 0.2 (steady)
Libertarianz 0.2 (new)
Progressive 0.1 (steady)

This puts Libz above Jim Anderton's party. Our 1999 result, .3%, would place us above Peter Dunne's party as well. In 1999 we were never acknowledged in poll results. Being listed now is huge. That .2% should translate into 1% at least on the night, and then it's "move over Act!"

Q and A

Craig Milmine's picture

Kasper - here are some brief answers to your questions:

"How do the libertarians plan to get into government?"

Advertising, campaigning, publics meetings, never compromising our principles, using the lost-cost advantages of the internet, trying to get some significant donations of time and money to spread our ideas.

"Who are they going to have in parliament?"

Our party list is not yet finalised. The party constitution states that the first and second placings on the list are taken by the leader (Bernard Darnton) and deputy leader (Richard McGrath).

"When they are in parliament, what are they going to do?"

Briefly - we will support any measures that promote freedom without any new coercion. Sitting on the crossbenches we will vote (for example) for any tax cuts without new tax increases and any rolling back of bureacratic meddling. We will not enter into a coalition because we will not compromise our principles and will support anyone in parliament to further that end. In the meantime we will tirelessly find the victims of government force and bring them to the steps of parliament and make the other parties of compulsion see the effects of coercion on their lives. Property-developers stymied by the RMA, drug prohibition victims, state healthcare disasters, people in poverty because of years of state welfare and meddling. The media would have to evaluate every bill going through parliament on whether it improves freedom and will consequently get Libz support - so hopefully some policy analysis from the media rather than politcal sports team reporting.

"How are they going to do this?"

With your support.

Libertarianz have always

Craig Milmine's picture

Libertarianz have always been strong on principles and policies. PR is a moving feast that we are adapting all the time to see what gains traction.

Here are some specific examples of our current (new) strategies:

We are about to launch a nation-wide newspaper campaign promoting our policies which will run for several weeks and feature some hard-hitting (yet not abusive Smiling ) ideas.

Following criticism from people who agreed with us but could not see how our policies could be implemented, we have introduced a number of transitional policies which show how over a five year period we can gradually roll back the state to its core functions with minimal negative disruption to most New Zealanders. We welcome the cherry picking of these ideas from other parties.

We have launched www.libz.tv and have a stack of videos in production to sell our ideas in bite sized chunks. These videos are positive messages rather than a style of cursing all and sundry from the pulpit.

Our advertising is framed in a much more positive way - for example our brochure has been redone and has libertarian ideas expressed in positive terms such as "Owning your life - the joy of living comes from pursuing your own goals and making your own choices" instead of the previous brochure which read (as an example) "unemployment under a Libertarianz government will increase dramatically - amongst consultants, bureaucrats, planners, lawyers and accountants". The latter being an example of a temporary consequence of our policies - not the objective.

There is some evidence that these strategies are working. Our alternative budget was released as a video, press release, and in-depth budget and was sold as a tax-free threshold of $50,000 ($240 a week). The Colmar Brunton Poll had us equal with United Future and ahead of The Progressives in the week following our budget release.

So what is holding us back? Well it comes back to the same old problems... money and time. Unlike the parliamentary parties that have a stack of taxpayer funded "volunteers" - we all have day jobs and limited budgets. Hitting the streets is a great idea. The Labour party does it very well handing out helium filled Labour balloons. What stops us is time and money. We need money to produce resources and advertise. We need volunteers' time to hit the streets and stand as candidates.

So I do not agree that Libertarianz have no PR skills - I think we are doing the best we can with our budget and time constraints - and we are certainly the best performing non-parliamentary party. If you want to improve the Libz PR - then I would respectfully suggest that your time spent criticisng the only party promoting freedom in New Zealand on this forum would be better spent:
*Writing a letter to your newspaper editor promoting freedom
*Coming to a Libz meeting and actually contributing to the direction of our PR
*Ringing talkback radio and promoting freedom and the only party offering it
*Going to work, earning some money and sending us a cheque so we can campaign on your behalf
*Actually voting for the party that promotes the ideas you profess to believe in

Constructive feedback with an offer to help implement your suggestions is always welcome.

Craig Milmine
Libertarianz President

As I said before Peter, its

Kasper's picture

As I said before Peter, its all very well and good when we sit and talk over beers. The 'hurt' is not about being told off for not contributing and therefore to piss off and being attacked on integrity. The 'hurt' is the cringe that I experience when the Libz give such a response. I can liken this to being passionate about wine. A potential customer comes in, the customer is interested in wine, wants a chat and on his way through tells me about the unfavorable qualities in some of the wine we're selling. If I told him to either start giving us support by buying more wine, to work for us or otherwise piss off, I can tell you my business would run dry very quickly.
The ideals, resources and PR are all separate skills. You have every right to think the way you do and so would I if I were selling wine, however, surely it is entirely in the rational self interest of the Libz to "turn the customer around"?
The ideals of the Libz were not in question when Glen was challenging the Libz back then. I know you see his ideals being in question, however, I believe it was more a question of strategy and plan on his part.

Also I can see that it is disheartening for you to have keen young people around that you see as prime candidates to help out with the Libz campaign. However, being busy in final year of university and struggling with four part time jobs is a legitimate reason to not spend voluntary time supporting the Libz by campaigning for them.

One of the hurdles to politicking is sloth

Peter Cresswell's picture

"To be honest I have not decided whom I'm voting for this election. However, one of the deterrents to voting Libertarianz is that I believe their ability to politic is strongly lacking."

Kasper, Libz' "ability to politic" is severely hindered by people such as yourself, who told us you were "too busy" to use your enrolment at AUT to help get us permission to set up a stand there in Orientation Week.

Thanks for the help.

"Any speculation or skepticism demonstrated towards the Libertarianz on this website has simply prompted a defensive [sic] response whereby people like Glenn and others are attacked for not having enough balls or integrity to stick up for their values."

And it's true, isn't it. People like Glenn and others don't have enough balls or integrity to stick up for what they say are their values. They talk a lot about what they say they believe in, yet do precisely squat about it.

"The attitude of 'If you're not willing to contribute and run with us then how dare you criticize' is not going to cut it with me..."

Why? Hurts, does it?

Elijah

Mitch's picture

"and the bizarre obsession with attending joint candidate meetings (a complete waste of time as no voters are actually there)"

I agree with you there. I don't understand it either. :)  

I think there is a lot in

Elijah's picture

I think there is a lot in what you say, Kasper, too often delving into personalities, too much "anyone who does not vote libertarianz is an idiot", too much "if you voted Labour/National you only have yourself to blame" (etc)..rather than providing an alternative, providing positive reasons to vote for the Libertarianz.

That is why my original post gives 10 reasons to vote for the Libz, and points out that no other party is offering those policies...(and certainly not National or ACT).

If you find yourself in agreement with the things I listed then hopefully you are well on the way to making a voting decision. Sticking out tongue

On the PR front, yes, has been a bit lacking, alas...and the bizarre obsession with attending joint candidate meetings (a complete waste of time as no voters are actually there) as the sole level of campaigning probably explains a thing or two.

Libz candidates and members need to start handing out leaflets and shaking hands in shopping centres, bus stops, supermarkets and other places people congregate, where contact with 1000 people on a Saturday afternoon could be achieved quite easily...ummmm...you know, actually introduce ourselves to actual voters telling them what our actual principles and policies are....(bear in mind this has never taken place before, and many Libz find the idea of meeting anyone on the electoral roll rather strange)...and I am confident when the novelty of this catches on (!) the Libz will be able to connect with a large number of voters and start receiving an increased level of support.

As someone who mainlines positive thinking, I am sure many will get their act together over the next few weeks for the campaign.

Elitism, forever!

To be honest I have not

Kasper's picture

To be honest I have not decided whom I'm voting for this election. However, one of the deterrents to voting libertarians is that I believe their ability to politic is strongly lacking. The left sadly is brilliant at politicking. Its one thing to have ideals and I love the libertarians for those ideals. However, its another skill altogether to learn the art of politics, advertising, good public relations and making sure they're not only heard by the NZ public but that they're able to persuade them.

Any speculation or skepticism demonstrated towards the libertarians on this website has simply prompted a defensive response whereby people like Glen and others are attacked for not having enough balls or integrity to stick up for their values. This is all very well, however, as far as PR goes its atrocious behavior for a political party wanting votes. The attitude of "If your not willing to contribute and run with us then how dare you criticize" is not going to cut it with me or any other voters I believe.

So based on the above I think we should have a debate that is an open end forum on the following.
How do the libertarians plan to get into government?
Who are they going to have in parliament?
When they are in parliament, what are they going to do?
How are they going to do this?

I would like to see the libertarians encourage people who are inclined to vote for ACT or National to feel free to enter a discussion NOT an arguement on why they want to vote for that party. This website is a great place for the libertarians to do some market research and pick up voters by persuasion to vote for them.

Yes, we are fairly unique,

Elijah's picture

Yes, we are fairly unique, Michael...I put that down to our people being splendid chaps who do not compromise on the important things. Smiling 

Elitism, forever!

Better to ask why WOULDN'T you vote Libertarianz?!?!

mvardoulis's picture

Honestly, there is no longer ANY political party like it ANYWHERE else in the world!!! I can't believe there are ANY kiwis who claim to love liberty that *wouldn't* cast *all* their votes for Libertarianz!!!

GO LIBZ!!!!

Excellent post, Elijah!

mvardoulis's picture

Though I'd say, even in New Zealand, the LIBZ are the only solution against an unholy cabal of extreme left and center-right statism. In the United Police States we have a ... GIANT *NOTHING* to stand against the same kind of statist-socialist mob of both right and left stipes!

It's only a matter of time before the precious few Americans who love liberty will find their way to your shores....

"they instinctively want to

gregster's picture

"they instinctively want to do the opposite of other people"

Because these sorts of chaps don't have the first idea what's good for them.

I emailed Libertarianz party

Kasper's picture

I emailed Libertarianz party leader Bernard Darnton I think, in February this year. Asking him to post under the FAQ's a 'why vote for libetarianz' question and answer.

He thought it would be a great idea but hasn't gotten onto it. Any chance of it happening? It should be the second question after 'What is Libertarianism?'

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