My next post at Superhero Babylon that's going up tonight is my second on a real life hero. And as it applies to Joe. We decided before starting this that we'd do theme events to line up with Holidays or other interesting events. I have a lot of plans for March (women's history month) but our first one is coming up next week.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

Joe, it is very interesting. I see I'll have to look into it. It does fit my Dad, though, as soldier and parent, provider, protector.

--Mindy

 Mindy, some points...feel free to share them at the site.

 One issue, though: "Maybe we should lower the bar to whether we know someone who has been truly heroic? "

 I personally think that before we lower any bars, we need to define that bar itself. My problem with Rand's use of the term hero is that she never explicitly defined it. You won't find it as a definition in the Lexicon, unlike the way she did with "selfish." (You get a sense of what she meant, for sure...part of our goal is to make explicit what she made implicit...)

"Hero" gets thrown around so loosely these days, without looking at the etymological roots. That's part of the name SUPERHERO BABYLON. So many people using the term with different meanings that all meaning is lost. Luke noted that heroes are not simply celebrities, I agree, There is a definite criteria in the etymology: protector. 

 So the question becomes, is a hero someone who protects others? Is it someone who protects an ideal?  

These are the kinds of things we hope to answer at superherobabylon.blogspot.com. 

...aren't you assuming one's heroes are public figures? If I name people I know who are heroic, what would that accomplish? Would you want proof that he/she is heroic?

A better question, I think, is whether or not people here even have heroes--living ones, let's say. How many of us are fortunate enough to know someone they evaluate so highly? Linz makes it sound as if one must have living heroes, but are they that easy to come by?

Maybe we should lower the bar to whether we know someone who has been truly heroic? Does a single act of heroicism make one an hero?

My dear old dad, for example, is a hero to me. He flew fighter/bomber missions (Corsairs, Marine Corps) in the South Pacific in WWII. He has a ton of medals, and amazing stories (and letters of commendation.) He had wide capabilities, he could build a pontoon boat or a hydroplane, he fixed cars and boat engines; he made furniture, and wired the low-voltage electric in the house when he and mom built a new house, and would take something up and teach himself how to do it (playing the organ, for example.) He began his married life with NOTHING. But we kids grew up the privileged ones at school. Mom (who never worked, but was also very, very capable--that's a different story,) had furs and diamonds and drove a Mercedes, and they traveled the world. Today, living in an assisted living home, Dad pays his own way and earns about a quarter of a million per year on his investments. He is smart, fun and funny. Not that I can't also make complaints about him.

Maybe I should say I admire him to the extreme, though I don't respect him completely, but I definitely count him as a hero.

 -Mindy

 I will write about real-life heroes at the site. Thanks!

I think there are at least two kinds of heroes promoted here:  Heroes of talent, who have pushed their own personal limits as far as they can (athletes, opera singers, etc) and heroes that have changed the world (like Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, or the fictional John Galt).

Personally, athletes and opera singers don't send a shiver down my spine because I have never been a fan of high-level sports or classical music.  Playing sports is fun, but I have little interest in sitting down and watching people cheer for whichever side for two hours (even if beer is involved).  2 minutes of Paul Potts on Youtube is the closest I have gotten to enjoying opera.

That is not to say that I don't like music.  I listen to music for hours each day.  Sit in a quiet, dark room, in a comfortable chair and listen to Incubus' Aqueous Transmission with your eyes closed.  That's a transcendental experience for me.  One wakes up relaxed and defuzzed, somehow quieter and more contented inside, and more ready to face the world. 

At the other end of the energy spectrum, I get a buzz out of watching Christian Bale.  In each of his roles (American Psycho, The Prestige, Batman, Reign of Fire, Equilibrim, Rescue Dawn, The Machinist, etc) he becomes his characters in such an intense way that it is almost possible to believe that each movie features a different person.  I just think he is an incredible actor.

I wouldn't call Brandon Boyd (lead singer of Incubus) or Christian Bale heroes, though.  I'd call them extremely talented, inspiring individuals, worthy of our respect because of their creativity and hard work.

During my time with the Libertarianz I have seen people being heroes in small ways, consistently, over years.  Tim Wikiriwhi, for instance, is indefatigably energetic about libertarianism in Hamilton.  Richard Goode's excellent transitional drug policy is a great example for the rest of our policy wonks (in fact, he came up with the idea for transitional policies, IIRC).  Graham Clark consistently writes letters to his local papers in Tauranga.  Bernard Darnton's articles are so funny and easy to agree with.

Each time someone like the good people I have mentioned writes a letter to the editor, a press release, an article for the Free Radical, even a philosophical blog post - that represents an individual exercising their beliefs to try and make the world a better place.  Sure, it's on a small scale, but that's heroism, I reckon.

Salut!

From time to time we will focus on the real-life heroes who defy the idea that heroism is for the funny pages only.

I'd encourage you to name one now. I'm sceptical that you have even one, but I'm itching to be proved wrong. Someone other than Ayn Rand, who is a given, Campbell and his Tooheyite ilk notwithstanding.

Thank you for your comments and advice.

" My own irritated reaction owes to frustration with the business of confining heroes to comics and not acknowledging/eulogising flesh-and-blood heroes."

That's a concern addressed and answered by Ayn Rand as well, who spent her lifetime writing to justify their existence in the here-and-now. And we certainly don't want to justify the concept of heroic fiction as mere "escapism." The goal of Superhero Babylon is to help pave the way for a new cultural acceptance of the very idea of heroism so that it is NOT confined to fictional characters, but attainable by those who have the courage to achieve it. From time to time we will focus on the real-life heroes who defy the idea that heroism is for the funny pages only.

Shine on! 

Were always the ones behind the art desk rather than on the page. To be Honest my most recent post at the blog is a repost of an example of "showing my hero" which I had originally posted here as well as on my MySpace blog.

Each time I post it I get one or two really positive comments about it, but mostly it goes ignored.

In your case Linz, you have interests in opera music and broadcasting (I'm sure there are others but those are the only ones from recent memory). I haven't taken active interest in music of any type since I stopped being a musician, and I'm not really qualified to understand the nuances of what makes a great broadcaster.

I can however tell you what makes a man like Frank Miller, or Will Eisner so good, but that only matters if you care about the source material and the work itself.

I can tell you how when I read Eisner I feel like I've been pulled into depression era Jewish New York and I'm living there rather than reading about it, or I can tell you about the one panel in the graphic novel 300 that could tell anyone who cared enough to study it everything they would ever need to know about visual storytelling.

But if you're not interested to begin with, a good presentation on the whats and whys won't always be enough to get you interested.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

... that this matter generates such heat. My own irritated reaction owes to frustration with the business of confining heroes to comics and not acknowledging/eulogising flesh-and-blood heroes (no, Mr. Maurone, I don't include Mr. Veitch in the "hero" category," as I explained ad tedium at the time). I often enough present one or other of my own heroes for the edification of the edifiable, only to be greeted with yawns and blank stares. So, sisters and brothers, show me yours! And don't get so caught up in your comic-book heroes that you neglect real-life ones. That's all. Nothing to get so hot and bothered about, really.

Moron? From you?

'Never go full retard', PhilipD.

http://fawstin.blogspot.com/

 Listen Bosch, you moron. I didn't ask about the value of comics. I asked about their overall fucking influence.

"The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools."

-Herbert Spencer 

That thing always takes my breath away.

Granted both those books are on the Fiction Reading List at Superhero Babylon

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

PhilipD, your continued presense on this thread belies your stated disinterest in it. You want us to explain to you the value of comics? The only thing I can say is to read The Dark Knight Returns by Frank Miller. If that doesn't do it for you, nothing will.

http://fawstin.blogspot.com/

 If anyone has a sincere interest in the topic, feel free to post at superherobabylon.blogspot.com. All intelligent discussions and debates welcome.

Shine on! 

There are two points there. The value of comics as a medium
and the value of heroic romantic fiction of all mediums.

To say comics as a medium is for kids is like saying "film is just for kids" or "books are just for kids." It's a medium and can be used to tell any kind of story that the writer and/or artist wants. To be honest, most of the comics I've read lately have been historical fiction or autobiographies.

As to the idea of heroic fiction being "for seven year olds." Nothing could be further from the truth. People need heroes, be they Jean ValJean, Howard Roark, Jesus Christ, John Rambo, Superman or some person who does an exceptional job in the field of work a person already works in, or wishes to work in.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

 I'll wait for that then, because neither of you have fucking told me.

Jesus, if there are millions of readers lapping up comics and philosophically getting it, then why not tell me so. You seem to think I am making some sort of criticism of comics. I'm not. Just an attempt to fill a gap in my knowledge....

"The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools."

-Herbert Spencer 

Well, Philip, when you turn 7 you may get it.

http://fawstin.blogspot.com/

 Thanks so much, I now have some sort of understanding about the Second World War.

But fuck all about the real influence of comics. My interest in the subject has waned- I'll just settle back to my original thinking that comics are mainly for 7 year-old kids.

"The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools."

-Herbert Spencer 

Thanks, Landon, but not at your expense, you're always out there, putting it in your own way, as I am.

http://fawstin.blogspot.com/

I thought you'd have a lot more to say on the subject in a much more eloquent fashion than I.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

Landon, true, if by tradition you mean that the background of those early cartoonists had as much to do with their response to WW2 as mine does to todays war. Or in as you put it, 'marketing the war to Americans.'

And PhilipD, I think seeing Captain America punching out Hitler on the cover of his first issue, 9 months before America entered World War Two, did more than any editorial ever could in clarifying the fact that Hitler was a villain who had to be destroyerd, and that seeing him get beaten, even on the cover of a comic book, had great value in it. And it made even children get used to the idea that America had to echo its fictional personification and finally take him down.

http://fawstin.blogspot.com/

You have actually seen things from that era right? It was the single war in history that most people were behind and most people viewed as a "good" or "necessary" war.

You had soldiers who were treated as heroes when they returned home almost universally, you had people growing "victory gardens" and buying war bonds.

And here's the biggest thing, our side WON! The axis powers were dismantled, the allies directed foriegn policy for the world for the rest of the century and beyond.

Contrast that to Korea, Vietnam, and just about everything since where there was no "psychological fuel." Unpopular no win wars that were often questioned at every turn (not that I'm saying you shouldn't question your government, but you need to be beyond that once you finally do go to war).

There was no Superman fighting the Viet Kong, and Captian America has done minimal handwringing fighting of the Taliban.

I'm not saying this is a casual thing but more a symptom of something bigger within the culture.

Part of the reason the Bible has had more success than any dry philosophical work is because it's techinically work of art. It doesn't just express a number of ideas about how one should live, it shows by example. It shows the type of people you should emulate in the type of world the writers viewed as real.

This is something people need to fuel their lives. Ayn Rand understood this, and this is a central idea of this project.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

 'The main influence came from marketing the war to Americans.'

 Ok, but how successful were they in doing that?

"The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools."

-Herbert Spencer 

The main influence came from marketing the war to Americans. The bulk of the original men working in comics (and especially any who created the more well known characters) were Jewish. And as I think Bosch would be the first to tell you, he's following in this tradition.

It served the purpose of reminding people about the fact that evil did exist in the world and good men need to stand up and fight it. It helped inspire the young ones back home, and remind the soldiers at war what they were fighting for.

But then again, questions like your are why we decided to start this

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

"That the american comic book writers were writing anti-Hitler anti-Nazi stories while the U.S. was still wringing it's hands about entering the war."

Can't fault that. But, what influence, if any, did those writings have, Landon? I mostly don't get the comic thing but I am very interested in understanding their potency at spreading philosophical ideas. What's your take on that?

Congratulations and good luck with the new project.

'Can't Bring Gray to a Black and White Fight.'

Now, that I get!

"The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools."

-Herbert Spencer 

And to think, I left out the part about Jewish artist Jack Kirby working as a scout behind Nazi lines.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

That the american comic book writers were writing anti-Hitler anti-Nazi stories while the U.S. was still wringing it's hands about entering the war.

Did you know Frank Miller is one of the few people in art EXPLICITLY (especially storytelling) refering to himself as a Romantic in the Objectivist sense of the term.

Fair enough, and good luck with your project. Don't neglect SOLO though!

 Thanks, Bosch; we promised you reinforcements! Feel free to drop by.

Thank you Elijah.

Good to know this is out there, I'll be a regular visitor, here's to a continuous flow of thought provoking content that will be of interest even to those who initially aren't into superheroes.

http://fawstin.blogspot.com/

That the american comic book writers were writing anti-Hitler anti-Nazi stories while the U.S. was still wringing it's hands about entering the war.

Did you know Steve Ditko gave up a high profile high paying (by comic standards) job on Spider-man because he refused to do work that contradicted his Objecticist principles.

Did you know that Will Eisner helps push the medium past children's stories and spent the final years of his life working on a project dispelling the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in terms so simple no one could evade them.

Did you know Frank Miller is one of the few people in art EXPLICITLY (especially storytelling) refering to himself as a Romantic in the Objectivist sense of the term.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

... with you boys that you don't appreciate real-life heroes, such is your preoccupation with the comic-book variety. Worse, in the case of Joe, you'll line up with an unspeakably evil wretch like Robert Campbell when it suits. If you're offended by my saying this, too bad. I'm saying you can't align with scum with impunity while championing the concept of heroism.

It's an idea that's been banging around for a while and thanks for the well-wishing.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

Super Hero Babylon

Well done, chaps!

I gather you both have put an enormous amount of time and effort into this project and I am delighted for any success.

On election day...tick the LIBERTARIANZ box...

There's actually a link now.

---Landon

Never mistake contempt for compassion, or power lust for ambition.

http://www.myspace.com/wickedlakes

.... supposed to be a link with this?