He is probably going his best, and following the advice of the best advisors he could find. The more he talks, the more we discover what we are dealing with.

If McCain somehow wins, it might be BETTER if he does not last the entire terms and Palin gets the big chair.

At a minimum, Obama has the clearly better Press Release writer. He has mastered the following equation, which Airhead America seems to eat up:

Barack Obama supports/ rejects "Simple statement of policy" in order to "Whatever the polls show Americans will vote for / whatever the polls show Americans do not like"

It is key that the statement of policy be a platitude and not any sort of explanation. Also important to note that the platitude and the promises outcome need not have anything to do with one another.

Scott DeSalvo

www.desalvolaw.com
FREE Injury Report and CD Reveal the Secrets You Need to Know to Protect Your RIGHTS!

...I can't understand how anyone can claim that Obama won. Is it because he flashes those baby-blacks of his and constantly criticises George Bush?

McCain laid a policy turd at the beginning with his new Mortgage policy. Although he obviously thought it would be a popular move with swing voters, he may have just sealed his fate by alienating his base supporters.

I also didn't see the strong finish to the final question by McCain that others claimed to have seen.

If anything I thought McCain was most effective talking about tax policy and cleaning up Washington. Obama was most effective talking about taking on the Taliban (although I think he was never believable).

In my opinion it was a tie, but unfortunately McCain has just given away the Presidency to Obama.

There is not going to be any agreement on any issue between these two perhaps until after the election.

I think on economics, they are both beyond redemption. But this McCain plan--just beyond belief.

Scott DeSalvo

www.desalvolaw.com
FREE Injury Report and CD Reveal the Secrets You Need to Know to Protect Your RIGHTS!

Laure Chipman says she will vote for Obama unless it turns out he supports McCain's late-breaking promise to buy up bad mortgages.

News reports indicate Obama rejects the idea:

"Obama-Biden economic policy director Jason Furman : "Senator McCain’s first response to this economic crisis was to say that the fundamentals of our economy are strong. Since then, he’s acknowledged that there is a crisis and offered multiple plans, sometimes conflicting. Last night, in his latest attempt to get it right, he threw out a proposal that appeared to give the Treasury authority it already has to re-structure troubled mortgages. But now that he’s finally released the details of his plan, it turns out it’s even more costly and out-of-touch than we ever imagined. John McCain wants the government to massively overpay for mortgages in a plan that would guarantee taxpayers lose money, and put them at risk of losing even more if home values don’t recover. The biggest beneficiaries of this plan will be the same financial institutions that got us into this mess, some of whom even committed fraud." [link ]

WSS

Arch French animal rights femi-NAZI has this to say about Palin:

"French actress Brigitte Bardot, described Mrs Palin, 44, as a "disgrace to women".

Miss Bardot described Mrs Palin as "disconcertingly stupid" for "denying the responsibility of man in global warming" and "by advocating gun rights."

She also said of the self-styled "Pitbull with lipstick": "I know dogs well and I can assure you that no pitbull, no dog, nor any other animal is as dangerous as you are.

"You are a disgrace to women and you alone represent a terrible threat, a true environmental catastrophe."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/sarahpalin/316...

"I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home-loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes - at the diminished values of those homes - and let people be able to make those payments and stay in their homes."

Laure, you are right. This alone makes me consider changing my vote. That statement is a catastrophe. It makes Obama look like the more rational candidate, and actually LESS phoney.

- Jason

McCain said, "I would order the secretary of the Treasury to immediately buy up the bad home-loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes - at the diminished values of those homes - and let people be able to make those payments and stay in their homes."

At the time I first heard it, my reaction was "huh?" But the more I think about it, the more horrifying this idea becomes. First of all, does the President actually have the constitutional power to do such a thing?

Secondly, does he not realize that we are talking about tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars for each "bad" mortgage? Everyone is going to be trying to figure out how to get in line for this money. How are people going to feel if their neighbors get forgiven $100-$200K of debt and they don't, because they didn't overextend themselves and can still pay the mortgage? This could make the non-beneficiaries extremely angry, as in, torch-the-neighbor's-house-angry. I'm voting for Obama. Unless he proposes the same thing.

Had a question but figured it out myself.

Scott DeSalvo

www.desalvolaw.com
FREE Injury Report and CD Reveal the Secrets You Need to Know to Protect Your RIGHTS!

 Had to "love" this question:

The fourth question was received via the internet. "Since WWII we have not been asked to sacrifice anything for our country except the blood of our heroic men and women. As president what sacrifices will you ask every American to make to help restore the American dream?"

 Neither candidate questioned the premise... But Obama...wow. 

"That wasn't the kind of call to service that I think the American people were looking for." And: "And the last point I just want to make. I think the young people of America are especially interested in how they can serve, and that's one of the reasons why I'm interested in doubling the Peace Corps, making sure that we are creating a volunteer corps all across this country that can be involved in their community, involved in military service, so that military families and our troops are not the only ones bearing the burden of renewing America." 

...A SHOW OF HANDS: A Cautionary Tale of Heroes in Exile...

Perigo: "(this is surely of *some* existential moment?)"

No.

Remember, Obama considers this to be "mainstream":

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html

"Be it a question of science, metaphysics, or religion, the man who says: 'What is truth?' as Pilate did, is not a tolerant man, but a betrayer of the human race."-Jacques Maritain

"Sweet Jesus, what an awful week!"

This election has been all about defining deviancy down.

"Be it a question of science, metaphysics, or religion, the man who says: 'What is truth?' as Pilate did, is not a tolerant man, but a betrayer of the human race."-Jacques Maritain

What a god awful shit sandwich this is. My girlfriend is favoring Obama and on last night's performance I can't fault her. Obama and McCain are the Ebony and Ivory of socialism.

The only saving grace is that this economy is so far in the toilet that we won't be able to afford McCain's nationalization of the credit/housing industry or Obama's nationalization of the health industry.

As for defense, Obama is more hawkish than McCain on Pakistan. Whilst the reverse is true in Iraq and Iran. Though, Obama would be the first Democratic president in recent memory to be reticent about going to war at the drop of a hat. They believe in intervention and Obama stated that tonight when he commented on Darfur etc.

Why the hell don't these two just drop Palin and Biden and join forces as a single ticket: Obama/McCain '08 (or vice versa).

Barf.

The only thing more vomit inducing that the performance of McCain was the final question put to Obama: "What don't you know and how will you find it out." Like wow man! Toke on this while I type out a question for the Presidential debate.

And just when I turn away from the insanity by loading 'Economics in one lesson' on my iPod, I find that the narrator is Jeff Riggenbaath! And, dammit, he's pretty good at it - that's another hat I'll have to eat!

Sweet Jesus, what an awful week!

"Obama, from what I can tell, is at worst a dyed-in-the-wool socialist-mystic like Jimmy Carter. At best, he a power-hungry Bill Clinton type."

I think he is an effective and passionate crusading Socialist with philosophic underpinnings which include racism and the belief that America is fundamentally evil.

I am all for benevolence, but what do we know of Obama?

He was raised a Muslim as a child.
He tells of the white racism of his grandmother.
He denies that he knew that his Pastor, mentor and spiritual advisor was a racist and America hater.
He believes in spending more money to expand government programs for people based on their need.
He voted for every pork-filled bill which crossed his desk during his short tenures as Senator--UNTIL he started running for President.
Oblivious to what raising taxes on business will do to business AND JOBS in a credit crunch, he will have business pay the taxes for the social programs he wants, which will create more dependence on the government.
He will, with every policy, move the government towards the ideal of enforced government equality and Socialism. Enforced social justice at the expense of our freedom to produce.

On the other hand...

McCain is no better on the economics. He thinks that by parroting Obama's economic policies with slight variation, he will shed the criticism of economic ignoramus. Quite the opposite.
He wants to continue an unpopular war indefinitely. Although I support finishing the job in the Middle East, alot of voters want it over with.
He supports Socialism in the form of government bailouts of private industry.
As a career politician, he automatically deserves our suspicion.
But he is a war hero who put his money where his mouth was by fighting for this country.
He was tortured and spent 5 years in Hanoi Hilton and did not break--CHARACTER.
He is unabashed in his love of this country.
He pays at least lip service to some of the correct ideals.
He is not a Republican puppet like Bush.
He DOES take his own position on matters, even when he is wrong. That makes him more of an independent thinker and a better choice.

Heaven help us that it has come to choices like these.

I predicted an Obama win because African American voters and White Guilt liberals are religious in their fanatacism towards Obama. The best the Right can do is amass lukewarm enthusiasm for McCain.

McCain is a better man than that. He'd make a better President.

Scott DeSalvo

www.desalvolaw.com
FREE Injury Report and CD Reveal the Secrets You Need to Know to Protect Your RIGHTS!

"...less than secondary when predicting the outcome of the election"

Fox News can claim whatever it likes. The proof was on the screen of any appropriately-tuned television.

Scott DeSalvo

www.desalvolaw.com
FREE Injury Report and CD Reveal the Secrets You Need to Know to Protect Your RIGHTS!

...then I agree, you need some brain food.

Scott DeSalvo

www.desalvolaw.com
FREE Injury Report and CD Reveal the Secrets You Need to Know to Protect Your RIGHTS!

In a debate between an impulsive muddle-witted pragmatist and a deceptive smooth-talking devotee of the most murderous religion (in the invidious sense of the term) in human history, was the outcome ever in doubt?

"Be it a question of science, metaphysics, or religion, the man who says: 'What is truth?' as Pilate did, is not a tolerant man, but a betrayer of the human race."-Jacques Maritain

'The BBC scorecard is mixed. Their choices are a bit weird, choosing Andrew Sullivan. What else would they expect Sullivan to say?'

No mention of Hugh Hewitt's inclusion? You view him as impartial? It seems like the BBC is pitting partisan against partisan. Pundits are interesting but less than secondary when predicting the outcome of the election. Look at the polls.

Come on Lindsay your not stupid.

We need a few brains in this country, Obama is a nice guy and could be a good leader for USA.

What your upset about is the political system, that fact that candidates can assume tax  as compulsory. And the opposition to a republican must be a left wing ideologist. That one represents free-market the other social. Thats something echelons, that you can play a part, need to endeavor.

We have a simple system for many years of a two party race with both assuming tax and then enforcing their mandates. Perhaps civilized society will allow for evolution to voluntary tax.

"if Obama laid a turd in the middle of the stage - you'd still bone for him. Forgone conclusion!"

Hi Marcus! And fuck you. We've had a few brief exchanges over the past few months and I've treated you with nothing but respect, even when your responses to my opinions have been obnoxious and childish (I can be like that too, see my exchanges with the late Nick Otani.)

As it turns out I do (like Linz) think Obama won this debate, not a tie in his favor like last time, I think he WON. It wasn't a big enough win to excuse him shitting on the studio floor but it was a win none the less.

The town hall stlye lends itself to theatrics. McCain seemed like he was shuffling around while Obama looked like he was in control of the stage. In substance Obama, I think, was slightly ahead. Delivery? Easily Obama. McCain brought the style he uses in his real town hall debates in to this extremely formal debate with a town hall theme. It didn't translate well.

McCain had his strongest moment towards the end when he talked to an ex military man about Iran and Israel, patting him on the back, shaking his hand and giving a strong answer. Obama followed with another strong answer, the military man nodded his head and grinned. It wasn't quite as strong as McCain's exchange but it nulled McCain's moment, his only moment. The 'that one' line will probably be replayed over the coming days too. That wont help.

I think McCains toast now but I've been wrong before. Just tying to be objective.

With his injuries and age, he has clearly been coached to behave more frenetically than a man of his age does.

A weak message coupled with an unnatural delivery has a relatively flat Obama winning the debate.

This country is in big trouble.

Scott DeSalvo

www.desalvolaw.com
FREE Injury Report and CD Reveal the Secrets You Need to Know to Protect Your RIGHTS!

...if Obama laid a turd in the middle of the stage - you'd still bone for him. Forgone conclusion!

The BBC scorecard is mixed. Their choices are a bit weird, choosing Andrew Sullivan. What else would they expect Sullivan to say?

"CBS's poll of undecided voters suggested 39% thought Mr Obama the winner, with 27% for Mr McCain and 35% calling it a draw."

So if McCain can just mobilize the 60% who didn't think that Obama won, he'd be onto a winner!

BBC Scorecard:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7658275.stm

I'm watching it later tonight so I'll report back. All the live blogs I'm reading seem to agree with you though Linz.

"Newsflash: Fox News has just said 86% of its respondents thought McCain won. Well bugger me."

Ay, who said that on Fox? An anchor? Fox, CNN and CBS all had decisive Obama wins in insta-polling.

I watched it online....I call it a draw, in the sense that each candidate appeared to be playing to their own supporters [and presumably leaving the undecided until the final debate], and no one hit a home run.

What amazed me is how identical their policies are...such as healthcare, (for those who do not realise, Obama's subsidy up to $2500 and McCain's $5000 tax credit amounts to the same thing, same meat with different gravy), and peacemaking, and several other things.

I felt McCain's closing statement was splendid!

Lindsay, gosh, why do you always have to criticise Nixon? ha ha!

http://www.nzcapitalist.blogspot.com/

McCain loves his country, I don't doubt that and I respect him for it. His sense of life seems good. But as a presidential candidate he has insulted the intelligence of those he would lead by pandering to anyone who will listen. Politically, he is a desperate man with no ideas. Sorry, I've seen enough of those.

Obama, from what I can tell, is at worst a dyed-in-the-wool socialist-mystic like Jimmy Carter. At best, he a power-hungry Bill Clinton type.

Both of those are pretty bad in my book.

And if you think the Republicans are clean after what we've seen of them over the last 40 years then there's nothing I can say to help you.

If you think I think that after everything I've said over the last 4 years then there's nothing I can say to help *you*!

Obama, from what I can tell, is at worst a dyed-in-the-wool socialist-mystic like Jimmy Carter. At best, he a power-hungry Bill Clinton type.

At worst, he wants to help the poor and will go to great lengths to do it. There is nothing especially wrong about wanting to help the poor - it's just those pesky means that cause all kinds of problems. So he will rob the productive and give it to the downtrodden. If he is a power-monger that is probably better for us because he will likely get bogged down in a scandal and the American people won't let him do too much damage.

Americans know that socialism doesn't work. Think of it - Obama has every possible advantage (Republican president who has a ghastly approval rating, economy is on the brink of disaster, McCain looks like he's 100 yrs old, Governor Palin is not particularly qualified) and still the socialist Obama is barely ahead in the polls.

This is not going to be a mandate for socialism. Americans will not stand for it; not in any principled way.

And if you think the Republicans are clean after what we've seen of them over the last 40 years then there's nothing I can say to help you.

If anything, they are the greater of two evils today, because they attack individual rights in the name of defending them.

As I've said in the past, they're confused rather than vicious. That was abundantly clear tonight. McCain is confused. All over the place, an altruist who nonetheless, like you Lance, loves America and would never allow it to be hurt, at least consciously (this is surely of *some* existential moment?). Trying to follow him was a conceptual nightmare. I don't think he even understood the right/responsibility/privilege question on health care. Obama is vicious, and conceptually consistent. He understood right away that he had to say health care is a right. I confess I've forgotten the details of the DIM hypothesis, but isn't the integrated one supposed to be the more potent/dangerous?

By way of argument, I'll just give you an essential one:

The Republicans do not know - and do not care to know - how to protect the individual rights of American citizens. A vote for them is a vote of self-destruction.

If anything, they are the greater of two evils today, because they attack individual rights in the name of defending them.

Well, if I'm an ARI-type that is certainly a great compliment.

I'm not offended at all, honestly. I'm doing my best to orient toward what's real - and to live my life accordingly.

It's just that if you (when you? as James V might say?) realize that you are actually making it much harder for good people to achieve their good goals - that you will apologize as you did when PARC came along.

But no, not offended. If there's one thing I know absolutely it's that I am in love with America. I would never hurt her.

... in my view, Lanza Morio, however innocently, to vote for, or not to vote against, someone who says he'll sit down and negotiate without preconditions with one's avowed enemies. Obama repeated that tonight, even though he's now pretending that the purpose would be to talk tough to them, the appeasing, lying piece of excrement. He is the most repulsive of low-lifes, all the more so because of how polished he is.

The trouble with you ARI types is that you're forever taking umbrage and demanding apologies. There's no rough-and-tumble, no cut-and-thrust, no free flow. It's just, "I'm so offended." PC bullshit. Toughen up and argue the point, man!

I didn't watch this one. But I've been so disgusted by McCain's altruism and Palin's "pro-life" position that I'm getting as comfortable as one can with Obama-Nation.

And Linzio, if one were so inclined, this would be a fine place to apologize to ARI and their friends for calling them "treasonists."

I'm running low on olive branches but there's one for you.