Landon:

~~ Uh-h, when I said 'exposure'; I wasn't talking about routine daily class times.

~~ And, I doubt "I do goes, fo' mo' ho's" will be on Ses-Str anytime soon. Please don't twist an example into an advocacy. --- O-t-o-h, the simplistic chronic 'chanting'-rythym of rap (which stresses voice over instruments) can be useful...for those not yet understanding words. (Put yo' pipe in THAT, 'n' you be smokin' up GOOD rap.)

~~ Not that any of this is relevent to *my* D-S kid. He shifted from Barney and Pavarotti to Bocelli and...John Cougar(?) for what we hear all day. Ah-h-h, my other though, he has discovered rap (mostly peer-group, where all probs start). At least he's not into M&M. --- I think I may accidentally step on his portable CD before school's out, though.

Joe:

~~ My horrorscope, consistent with my oowheechacha-board, said to follow the advice in my next fortune cookie. After 'Chinese' yesterday, my dessert-advice was "Jewelry is sparkly; draws others darkly", so, thanx for the info, but, I'll have to forgo those benefits you point out. --- Maybe next month I'll risk your suggestions.

LLAP

J:D

Sorry John but my kid's first words will not be
"Girls
Come on
Girls
Come on
Girls
Come on
Get ya clothes off and the fun on"

or

"Six in the morning police at my door,
Fresh adidas sweep across the bathroom floor"

I love the Iceburg but I don't think you can make a case for it helping mental development... understanding psychology maybe, but that's another thread I need to move.

---Landon

It all basically comes back to fight or flight.

Rowlf, I have some crystals and gemstones that makes nice jewelry. Oh, and it will help you harmonize your chi, as well as cure asthma.

~~ Hey, it may or may not be a 'folk/urban' legend, (re Mozart et al, specifically), but, there's no two ways about one thing this applies to: the more 'exposure' to different things the earlier, the better for mental development, whether Mozart or Ice T. Else, might's well argue for getting rid of Sesame Street; I mean, is the latter really 'necessary' to a child's mental development? Methinks not; but, it helps.

~~ If we're talking a 'crusade' here to get rid of shysters playing-up (or over-playing) some worth about playing Wagner (Mozey, whoever), fine. But to downgrade something that at least appears to help parents improve the lot of their kids, well...we're not really talking snake-oil salesman here where the product will cure your cancer...while you're actually still dying while wasting money and time on the useless product.

~~ After all, lethalness is not a concern re this product, and the time involved is only a few years (if that).

~~ Sure, it's not solidly 'established' that it's all that useful, but, given no lethal concerns, hey, if you got (not to be confused with exerting extra effort in making) the time and/or money...go for it.

LLAP
J:D

"Fraser, you might like to know that Tim V has set the music for Peter as the ring-tone for his mobile when it's you calling"

First TimS suggests that Sarah bears some relation to Emma Peel from The Avengers, then TimV links me to Peter, of the Wolf fame. I have no idea what that implies.

If anyone needs a wolf captured, please contact me.

Because it's just THAT simple.

It's quite simple really. Intelligent parents tend to have intelligent children.

Intelligent parents are more likely to play Mozart to their children.
Hence, a connection between Mozart listening babies and high intelligence.

Ipso facto...the Mozart effect

Marcus, I don't know how many babies you've been around...they cry at the drop of a hat...ooh, I'm wet, ooh, I'm hungry, ooh, I'm tired, feed me, change me, love me, waah, waah...

Sorry, babies aren't on trial here...neither is rap music, btw. Or Mozart or Wagner. What is on trial is shysters taking advantage of gullible parents who only want what is best for their children.

...is much better than, W for Wagnerian migraine.

I would take a chocolate box any day.

"Yet they seem immune to the stress they cause with their shrill, loud, earsplitting crying!!!"

Nah, that's just when they hear (c)rap music.

By the way: Just the other day there was a news story about a new "rap" version of "Cosi Fan Tutte" to be put on by Glyndebourne's education department and the Finnish National Opera in the south of England.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4817388.stm

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!

Marcus: "Children at a young age are very sensitive to loud random noise, strong taste, shrill colours etc.... and are very easily stressed."

Yet they seem immune to the stress they cause with their shrill, loud, earsplitting crying!!!

Here's an article highlighting the differences between the originators of the "Mozart Effect" and the popularization by Don Campbell:
http://skepdic.com/mozart.html

Some highlights:

"The Mozart effect is a term coined by Alfred A. Tomatis for the alleged increase in brain development that occurs in children under age 3 when they listen to the music of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart."

"The idea for the Mozart effect originated in 1993 at the University of California, Irvine, with physicist Gordon Shaw and Frances Rauscher, a former concert cellist and an expert on cognitive development. They studied the effects on a few dozen college students of listening to the first 10 minutes of the Mozart Sonata for Two Pianos in D Major (K.448). They found a temporary enhancement of spatial-temporal reasoning, as measured by the Stanford-Binet IQ test. No one else has been able to duplicate their results. NO ONE ELSE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DUPLICATE THEIR RESULTS." [Emphasis mine.]

The originators of the term "claim that their work has been misrepresented. What they have shown is "that there are patterns of neurons that fire in sequences, and that there appear to be pre-existing sites in the brain that respond to specific frequencies."* This is not quite the same as showing that listening to Mozart increases intelligence in children. "

On Campbell:
"Don Campbell, however, has become the Carlos Castaneda and P.T. Barnum of the Mozart effect, exaggerating and distorting the work of Shaw, Rauscher and others for his own benefit. He has trademarked the expression The Mozart effect and peddles himself and his products at www.mozarteffect.com. Campbell claims that he made a blood clot in his brain disappear by humming, praying, and envisioning a vibrating hand on the right side of his skull. Uncritical supporters of alternative medicine don't question this claim, though it is one of those safe claims that can't be proved or disproved. He might as well claim that angels took the clot away. (One wonders why, if music is so good for you, he got a blood clot in the first place. Accidentally listening to rap music?)"

"Damn! Where did I put that Mozart CD again?"

You'll find it under C, for chocolate box.

The claim that listening to classical music raises IQ is obviously bunk, for the reasons outlined in Joe's post. But what about emotional IQ?

Kids may not be able to distinguish the contrapuntal stylings of Bach - whatever that is - but they can do a hell of lot better than Mary Had a Little Lamb.

Music speaks directly to the emotions, but it's the undeveloped emotional capacity that causes the problem for the child in understanding music. They can't integrate an emotional piece of music into a coherent recogniseable unit.

You can help a child's emotional development by showing him/her how music integrates into recogniseable emotions. Every child understands that the music for the wolf in Peter and the Wolf is scary, while the music for Peter is light and playful. [Aside: Fraser, you might like to know that Tim V has set the music for Peter as the ring-tone for his mobile when it's you calling]. And the best vehicle for enabling the child to recognise and integrate emotions is classical music, because it is the more successful style for that purpose generally.

The effect also becomes clear if you consider alternatives. Consider what happens if you pound a small child regularly with thrash metal, or even just the banality of most modern rock...

I am quite willing to believe that "some" classical music will reduce the stress levels of babies. Whether or not this is linked to IQ in later life, I’m not sure. But it is plausible.

I remember that up until about the age of five, I didn't much like any pop or contemporary music, but I did like classical music. I think I liked it mainly because it did not assault my senses.

Children at a young age are very sensitive to loud random noise, strong taste, shrill colours etc.... and are very easily stressed.

Some adults too.

Damn! Where did I put that Mozart CD again?