KASS Music Gems of the Day

Richard Goode's picture
Submitted by Richard Goode on Tue, 2010-03-09 05:34

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No convictions

John Donohue's picture

Yes I see. Awful to get called Barnesian, but if the shoe fits.....

Ha, Mr. D!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

You to Richard:

I have not heard you state your aesthetic convictions.

And you never will, apart from "I get a good pounding from Slayer." Have a re-read of Music of the Gods and you'll see that Goode is my foil through much of it. Pomowankers have their uses. Eye

His trademark is never to state an independent conviction of his own, but rather simply to nitpick those of others. That means he's sophisticated in the manner of a Daniel Barnes, you see.

The man who refuses to judge

Richard Goode's picture

Richard you are insisting on a normative judgement.

No, Linz is the one insisting on normative aesthetic judgement. At least, he does in Music of the Gods, which is the context of this thread.

But he refuses to judge the pieces of music I posted; worse, he refuses even to listen to them.

Richard you are insisting on

John Donohue's picture

Richard you are insisting on a normative judgement. Speaking only for myself, I find it tiresome to bandy aesthetic judgement with those with whom I either do not know their convicted aesthetic values (they may refuse to enumerate them) or: whose values oppose mine at the root. On the other hand, I delight in the bandying with those simpatico with me in this area.

I have not heard you state your aesthetic convictions.

B is B

John Donohue's picture

even if for the flash of an instant A is not A, i remain certain that (B)arenboim is (B)arenboim

No

Richard Goode's picture

Are you telling us that we can't know for sure that the guy in the Youtube video is Daniel Barenboim?

No.

I wanted to know whether the pieces of music I posted are objectively superior, objectively inferior, or somewhere in between. Apparently, they're objectively inferior. However, I still don't know whether they're objectively inferior solely on account of being played by "someone with a very pedestrian style", or whether they're also objectively inferior qua compositions.

I'm interested in the compositions, not the playing.

Jason ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Are you telling us that we can't know for sure that the guy in the Youtube video is Daniel Barenboim? Is that the whole point of this exercise?

I suspect it might have been. Remember, Goode has a PhD in Philosophy. He probably hasn't figured out if he even exists yet. Eye

"Anyway, are you sure that

Jason Quintana's picture

"Anyway, are you sure that the "great Barenboim" isn't just some old guy pressing levers? How do you know?"

Are you telling us that we can't know for sure that the guy in the Youtube video is Daniel Barenboim? Is that the whole point of this exercise?

Some old guy pressing levers

Richard Goode's picture

You cannot tell that the playing is far better in the clips that John posted?

I'm interested in the compositions, not the playing.

Take the Beethoven-esque Track 2, for example, and the clip John posted of the first movement of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. Yes, it seems to me that the latter is, indeed, the better performance (but there's a lot less between them than the gulf between "awful" and "the most moving [performance] I have ever heard in nearly 50 years of listening"). Still, as compositions, I can't tell them apart, in terms of objective superiority.

Anyway, are you sure that the "great Barenboim" isn't just some old guy pressing levers? How do you know?

I confess, I still can't tell

Richard Wiig's picture

I confess, I still can't tell them apart, in terms of objective superiority.

You cannot tell that the playing is far better in the clips that John posted?

I never became a pro

John Donohue's picture

I never became a pro musician, but the piano for classical music has been in my life since 1958. Guess how I know the transcendent happens with a true genius? A piece that I studied and worked on for years, and worked up to a certain level of excellence...all it takes is one encounter with the real thing, such as the several times I was in a concert hall when Artur Rubenstein performed.....in an instant you realize the vast gulf between the good pianist and the rare genius musician at the keyboard.

One of these pieces is Chopin Opus 25 no. 1, a piece of music i have adored for 1/2 century. This etude tells you everything you will ever need to know about the key of A-flat.

I can 'play' it.

But I am five miles away from this:

Neither KASS, nor gems

Richard Goode's picture

Neither KASS, nor gems. Oh, well. Sad

Peter, John, Robert - thanks for listening to these tracks and appraising them. I especially appreciate John's posting of some YouTube clips for comparison. I confess, I still can't tell them apart, in terms of objective superiority. Is there something wrong with me?

Bravo Mr Donohue!

Robert's picture

You have begun restoring my respect for classical piano! The recording of Moonlight Sonata that you unearthed is exactly what I meant by classical music with balls!

Observe now the difference between Classical music and Death metal. Both can be made to sound like shit when some cloth-eared tone-deaf Neanderthal attempts to perform them.

But only classical music can be redeemed by someone with real skill and passion. Death metal will always sound as if 50 demented maniacs are randomly smashing their skulls into concrete bells regardless of who plays it. There is no mystery as to why that should be, the creators of that dissonant racket intended it to be that way.

Classical music is objectively superior to Heavy Metal because the former IS music. The latter is merely an assault on the senses. And if you attempt to understand it, you'll soon realize that like Rap music -- and most modern works of art -- it is also an insult on your intelligence.

These are very poor

Peter's picture

These are very poor imitations in the style of Bach, Beethoven (the Mondschein Sonata parody is just too obvious), Chopin and Scott Joplin. Far inferior to anything these composers themselves wrote.

Mr. D ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

I congratulate you on your didactic patience. I warn you that your attempt to educate the Slayer fan will fall on deaf ears and a "mind" immune to enlightenment, which it is not genuinely seeking. But you've provided me with some more genuine KASS gems, so it was worth it. Eye

You Gotta Have Balls

John Donohue's picture

Track 1 is Bach-ish or Bach. It may actually be Bach, a Two-Part invention or something. If so, it is at the very bottom of Bach's accomplishments.
Remedy: one of my heroes in life, Wanda Landovska
(this clip has embedding forbidden, so click on the youtube logo to go over. also see her other clips on youtube next to this in which she plays more.)
I especially recommend the Italian Concerto.
She is fearless and aggressive. She's got balls.

Please forgive brief appearance by William Fucking Buckley.

Track 2 is a bad takeoff on Beethoven Moonlight. It is awful.
Remedy1: the ACTUAL sonata first movement. Utter pathos by the great Barenboim.

Remedy2: the ACTUAL sonata, the big-balls third movement.

In looking for appropriate clips, this performance of the first movement may be the most moving I
have ever heard in nearly 50 years of listening. thank you Maestro Barenboim.

Track 3 is Chopin-ish or Chopin. It may actually be Chopin, one of the more obscure Mazurkas
or something. If so, it is at the very bottom of Chopin's accomplishments.
Remedy:

Track 4 is Joplin-ish or Joplin. It may actually be Scott Joplin, one of the more obscure rags
or something. If so, it is at the very bottom of Joplin's accomplishments.
Remedy: the brilliant, bright and ultra precise Dick Hyman

Not Slayer

Robert's picture

Five piano solos. Couldn't tell you what pieces are being played, only that they are being played by someone with a very pedestrian style.

But then, I find most classical piano pieces to be intolerably dull and colorless. There you have a wonderful instrument constructed from half a ton of wood, ivory, sinew and wire under the command of someone who has studied how to play that magnificent machine their entire life. And what is the usual result? Something akin to the volume, depth of sound, and significance of a field-mouse's squeak. All that latent power and majesty wasted on soft, delicate, slow f---ing elevator music that can't be discerned above the sound of a fidgeting audience. [Fuck I hate it when I pay to go to a live concerto and that happens - as it always does when they bring out the Steinway!].

I like classical music with balls. The unfortunate thing is that it often isn't the composers fault that their music sounds like duck-poo. Often the fault lies with the unbelievably dull bastard playing/conducting it.

Which brings me back to Goode. If he even cared about the topic (and he obviously doesn't) , he'd list the name of the piece along with the name of the performer and the performance date. Because I'd bet you $10 that all five of these bits of music would sound better if they were played by someone with some fire in their loins.

Well

Lindsay Perigo's picture

It's clear this thread is just more smart-assery from Goode. Initially I assumed his five tracks were some crap from Slayer. Are they not? Do they actually have musical merit. as opposed to anything Goode has glorified in the past?

Again—frankly, my dears, I don't give a damn. I'm not going to listen to Slayer 5 times over, or whatever bullshit this nihilist cretin has posted. If he wants my attention, he should ask for it honestly. A feat that is beyond him.

Don't be a moron

Richard Goode's picture

Objectively superior or inferior to what?

Objectively superior to whatever it is that Romantic music is objectively superior to (and anyone who doesn't get it is a moron), of course. Objectively superior in terms of tendency to produce value-swoon(Drunk.

Read Linz's Music of the Gods if you still don't get it.

This is important.

Objectively superior or

Richard Wiig's picture

Objectively superior or inferior to what?

Any chance?

Richard Goode's picture

I was hoping that someone who is attuned to these things (e.g., Linz) would be so good as to tell me whether these pieces of music are objectively superior, objectively inferior, or somewhere in between. Any chance?

(I particularly like the Beethoven-esque Track 2, and Track 5.)

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