Everything you ever wanted to know about Hell (but were too afraid to ask)

Richard Goode's picture
Submitted by Richard Goode on Sat, 2012-01-28 12:41

This is a 13-part series wherein I give you Hell, a little booklet by the inimitable Dr. Jeff Obadiah Simmonds.

Hell #1: Welcome to Hell
Hell #2: Hellish doctrines
Hell #3: The Immortality of the Soul (Part 1)
Hell #4: The Immortality of the Soul (Part 2)
Hell #5: Hell as Eternal Torment
Hell #6: Annihilation (Part 1)
Hell #7: Annihilation (Part 2)
Hell #8: Annihilation (Part 3)
Hell #9: Hell in the Teachings of Jesus (Part 1)
Hell #10: Hell in the Teachings of Jesus (Part 2)
Hell #11: Hell in the Teachings of Jesus (Part 3)
Hell #12: Hell in the Book of Revelation
Hell #13: Final Doom

Watch this space. Part 2 coming up (from below) ...


( categories: )

Brant

Richard Goode's picture

"Hell! Hell is for children!"

<humour>

Here's something to read to your grandchildren at bedtime.

</humour>

troy i don't kno

seymourblogger's picture

I am not familiar with all her work but everything I know about her I love.

O hell

Jules Troy's picture

Was that patti smith that sang the song "the warrior"?

 

 

brant hell

seymourblogger's picture

is the world Toohey wishes to construct.

troy me too

seymourblogger's picture

and Patti Smith.

Hey!

Jules Troy's picture

I like Pat Benatar a lot more than Goode's dumb hell and brimstone posts.

HELL!

Brant Gaede's picture

"Hell! Hell is for children!"

--Brant

And then

Jules Troy's picture

Goblin got fined by the Environmental Protection Agency and had to clean up his mess.

Bumpity bump

Richard Goode's picture

Annihilation (Part 2)

Bump

Richard Goode's picture

Bump

Richard Goode's picture

Leonid

Cornell's picture

That's about as plausible an explanation as any I can think of.

"Perhaps he thought he could

Leonid's picture

"Perhaps he thought he could pull it off? "

Perhaps he decided to become an economical dictator so he could order people to be free. If you remember, in AS John Galt rejected such an offer with contempt.

Leonid, this whole situation is incomprehensible to me.

Cornell's picture

Did Greenspan sell his soul? Or did he just change his mind? Perhaps he thought he could pull it off? Or maybe he decided to implode it from the inside, Atlas Shrugged style? How did he get hired to that job in the first place, given the things he'd written about them?

Whatever the truth is, it must be stranger than fiction (or at least as strange as Atlas Shrugged).

"Are you saying that Rand

Leonid's picture

"Are you saying that Rand subconsciously pushed Greenspan to tank the central banking system?"

Maybe she just wanted the experimental proof of her theory that in the compromise of good and evil only evil can profit? If it so, the experiment was a great success. Greenspan of course not.

Part 6

Richard Goode's picture

Annihilation (Part 1)

Are you saying that Rand

Cornell's picture

Are you saying that Rand subconsciously pushed Greenspan to tank the central banking system? I would say that's far-fetched, but then again it's seems just as far-fetched that Greenspan would agree to work for the Fed after all those articles he wrote in his younger days.

Cornell yes

seymourblogger's picture

Dominique and Wynand too although only Roark and Galt get the "superman" label.

If you follow Baudrillard in Forget foucault:

Dominique is not a psychological masochist clinical study as she has been labeled for 70 years now. She is a Nietzschean strategist as elucidated by Baudrillard. She does "worse" than "worse" Keating, Wynand's prostitute, Wynand's wife.

Wynand destroys the Banner by Imploding it. This is Nietzsche. Rand did the same with NBI and Branden. She would not portray characters that she could not live up to.

DeLillo picks this up in Cosmopolis with Eric Packer destroying cyber capital in one day. Did Rand destroy capital through Greenspan? Unknowingly. I am reading her as doing it by default. But there is no way to know for sure. DeLillo throws out lots of "floating signs" to Rand.

I am more detailed and specific on my blog http://intellectualterrorism2....

Rand's characters are classic

Cornell's picture

Rand's characters are classic ubermensch depictions.

I'm not sure why she was so vocal about opposing his philosophy.

I find she is right about 98% of the time. The other 2% often leaves me scratching my head, because it seems so off the wall.

Howard Roark laughed.

seymourblogger's picture

Zarathustra laughed.

Zarathustra laughs a lot. Then he despairs a lot.

Roark threw back his head and laughed.

This is when Dominique tells him she will come live with him, scrub floors, blah blah blah if only he will stop.

At last someone around here that knows something.

Rand and Nietszche have more

Cornell's picture

Rand and Nietszche have more in common with one another than they differ, I will give you that.

goode here Rand is

seymourblogger's picture

defying Nietzsche.

But Rand says that we should act as men "who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value."

As Nietzsche says this is the most primitive. Rand is having a lifelong argument with Nietzsche while at the same time she is embracing him.

Olivia

Richard Goode's picture

The one I really enjoy watching (in a nice way of course) is christians trying to put to death the deeds of the flesh. Yep, they've really nailed that one, eh Richard. Fornication, adultery, sensuality, lust and pride hardly ever happen within their circles at all, huh.

I think you'll really enjoy watching this.

I am ..

Jules Troy's picture

I have no brain activity?

"gasp"

Are you insinuating that we have something in common?

Oh now I am deeply offended.

lol I have to go back to work it has been an amusing exchange...sort of..kinda feel all dirty inside now.

LOL

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

Once you are dead you stay dead after your brain has no activity and all attempts to revive you fail, you simply stayyyyy dead.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Your brain has no activity and all attempts to elicit proof or evidence that this is my "finest moment of delusion" have failed.

Objectivism must be completely and utterly destroyed.

well i must confess..

Jules Troy's picture

I rather enjoy #2 as I have achieved complete separation from goblin as a matter of fact I must confess I rid myself of that pesky goblin infestation years ago.

and and and..i burned my bible in the back yard  as well as a copy of the koran!

Also on sundays while everyone is in church I fornicate at least twice!

 

So when I die I will be completely and uttery destoyeddddd rightttttt? lol

Oblivia

Richard Goode's picture

Also, after death, how could anyone be forever afflicted by the knowledge of what they have missed out on (closeness with God), when they've been completely and utterly destroyed??

You are confusing two different hellish doctrines. There are five main hellish doctrines, viz.

1. Hell is a place of fire and brimstone.
2. Hell is separation from God.
3. Hell is complete and utter destruction.
4. Hell is an allegory for life on earth.
5. Hell is cretinous filth.

But Richard, a request from me; don't just post links to other people's writings, formulate your reasoning through your own words, or give the discussion away altogether.

It's not worth reinventing the wheel unless one reinvents a better wheel. And I can hardly improve on Obadiah's Little Booklet #13.

I must confess to not being unduly perturbed by Richard's "dragged into the trash" analogy said to me

No undue perturbation intended. Smiling

Well ok.

Jules Troy's picture

I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Once you are dead you stay dead after your brain has no activity and all attempts to revive you fail, you simply stayyyyy dead.  

Do you believe in the toothfairy too?

Elves, dwarves?

Is Gandalf the Grey going to wave his staff and help with the second coming?

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

man's true salvation [is] the growth and promotion of the rational mind of reason.

Lead by example.

Present your rational case based on objective reality that this is my "finest moment of delusion". (I.e., give me your superior evidence that there will not be a future Resurrection of the Dead or confront me with actual fact that clearly establishes that "Christ has not been raised.")

Put up or shut up.

No Reed..

Jules Troy's picture

No Reed.

I hold no PHD's  so if someone such as I can see that most of his posts are complete pewp on a long spoon perhaps he might check his premises.

;

Jules Are your posts to

reed's picture

Jules
Are your posts to Richard intended to be of no value to him?

I am not an altruist

Jules Troy's picture

Trade implies value for value by what basis would you think that anything to do with god would be of value to me.  That would be me trading something of value, my rational mind for something that is of no value to me.  Actually to me it ould be considered an abomination of reason.  Just reading that psalm quote made me want to vomit.

To me you are the betrayer of man's true salvation, the growth and promotion of the rational mind of reason.  To me you are evil and revolting. If people actually believe the tripe you serve it would be just one more step to throw us all back into the dark ages.  As a PHD you should be ashamed of yourself.

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

Oh so you have a rational case based on objective reality for the existence of a supernatural being PHD Hume?

Would you like one? Perhaps I should start a new thread, "Why I am a Christian". What do you think?

But Rand says that we should act as men "who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value." So do you have a rational case based on objective reality for your extraordinary claim that this is my "finest moment of delusion"? Let's trade!

Meanwhile, in exchange for what you have given me thus far in the way of argument ("plain for all to see that you are deluded") I give you Psalm 19:1.

haHAha

Jules Troy's picture

Oh so you have a rational case based on objective reality for the existence of a supernatural being PHD Hume? 

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

Ayn Rand says

“Arbitrary” means a claim put forth in the absence of evidence of any sort ...

Mysticism is the acceptance of allegations without evidence or proof ...

“Faith” designates blind acceptance of a certain [idea] ... in the absence of evidence or proof.

You put forth your claim that I am deluded in the absence of evidence of any sort. You say the evidence is "plain to see", like the emperor's new clothes.

According to Ayn Rand, your claim that I am deluded is arbitrary and mystical, and an article of faith. Do you disagree?

and i would say

Jules Troy's picture

Seeing as this is an objectivist site populated by objectivist who do not believe in god that would indeed make it plain for all to see that you are deluded in your belief in god.

If I were to say the same statement on a christian website I would fully expect the wrath and indignation of those that frequent those sites.  Barring that and if by some reason people wanted to hear my reasoning then I would have to explain my position.

However here on this site it is you that wears no cloths and your arguements to the contrary are spurious and dishonest both to me (not that I care one way or another( most important though you are dishonest to yourself...also none of my concern that you constantly evade reality it5 is your life you have to live it.

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

you are [deluded] ... It is ... just an observation plain to see for any normal person that does not believe in god.

I'm disappointed. I was hoping you were going to resist me with reason or confront me with actual fact. But no.

You say the "superior evidence" is "plain to see". I say the emperor wears no clothes.

you are

Jules Troy's picture

It is not an extraordinary claim on my part just an observation plain to see for any normal person that does not believe in god.

Peter

Richard Goode's picture

The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Steve said I was deluded. That's quite an extraordinary claim. It requires extraordinary evidence.

The burden of proof is on Steve.

Ha ha ha! The burden of proof

Peter's picture

Ha ha ha! The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The claim that Christ has been raised is definitely extraordinary, but the evidence is nil, only some hearsay by some people who weren't even there, wow, that's impressive! Not to mention even the conflicting accounts. BTW, I've got a nice bridge to sell you.

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

The great Hume fILosuFUr at his finest moment of delusion..

Wikipedia says

A delusion is a belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence.

Dictionary.com defines 'delusion' as

a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact.

So give it to me. Your superior evidence that there will not be a future Resurrection of the Dead.

Confront me with actual fact that clearly establishes that "Christ has not been raised." (1 Corinthians 15)

haa

Jules Troy's picture

The great Hume fILosuFUr at his finest moment of delusion..

Heaven's Gate

Richard Goode's picture

I'd also like to know from Baade, "completely and utterly destroyed" ... vs what? What happens to those who are not "completely and utterly destroyed"?

They get to go to the next level.

Part 3

Richard Goode's picture

Cannibals too!

Jules Troy's picture

It wasnt enough that the goblinians sat back and ate popcorn while son of goblin was strung up on a cross but they have to eat his flesh and drink his blood every sunday too!

 

 

Lady Slap

Lindsay Perigo's picture

But Richard, a request from me; don't just post links to other people's writings, formulate your reasoning through your own words, or give the discussion away altogether. Otherwise it's like talking to a blank who just refers you on.

Goode luck with that. Argumentum via linkum is Baade's way.

One thing occurs to me: Baade, candidate for the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party, is powerful evidence that marijuana is indeed a gateway to harder drugs, such as Goblianity. Of course, all of these drugs should be legal. Just beware: dope leads to full-blown dopeyness a la Baade. Don't say you weren't warned. Eye

Lord Whop Flop...

Olivia's picture

Seriously, can you come to grips with supposedly intelligent adults with PhDs believing this cretinous filth in 2012? I can't.

I believe it's emotional first, intelligence has little to do with it. It's a lack of courage to apply themselves to owning their own lives fully and a lack of courage to accept the awful fact that we only live once, very temporarily; then it's all over. Lights out, tears in rain and all that. There it was. It was up to us all along, completely and utterly. Then nothing. Just like the nothingness before our arrival in the universe.

Baade is almost as old as I, educated in a time when chivalry counted for something. Clearly, Goblianity has warped such refining influences out of him.

That, along with a heart full of Slayer and Cradle of Filth, puts him way beyond even being capable of chivalry in my view. I must confess to not being unduly perturbed by Richard's "dragged into the trash" analogy said to me, but then I've heard it all before from christians regarding their malevolent predictions over my demise (in this life and the next). It served to give me immunity, in other words, scales, where skin used to be. Eye

And now we know I am actually Antichristus, doesn't that just make sense?

I'd also like to know from Baade, "completely and utterly destroyed" (his cop-out from the unspeakable barbarism of the actual Goblian teaching of eternal punishment) vs what?

I too would like to hear his idea on what awaits those who "make it" after they die.

But Richard, a request from me; don't just post links to other people's writings, formulate your reasoning through your own words, or give the discussion away altogether. Otherwise it's like talking to a blank who just refers you on. Smiling

Ah, Lady Slapper

Lindsay Perigo's picture

I am Antichristus.

That must be why you are to be "completely and utterly destroyed."

As I said to you privately, sounds goode—wot's holding Jeezy up?! Evil

Seriously, can you come to grips with supposedly intelligent adults with PhDs believing this cretinous filth in 2012? I can't.

I'd also like to know from Baade, "completely and utterly destroyed" (his cop-out from the unspeakable barbarism of the actual Goblian teaching of eternal punishment) vs what? What happens to those who are not "completely and utterly destroyed"? Caught up in the rapture? Hahahahaha!

And even I, an unreconstructed misogynist, cringe at the ungalanteness of "Olivia will be completely and utterly destroyed." Baade is almost as old as I, educated in a time when chivalry counted for something. Clearly, Goblianity has warped such refining influences out of him.

I just clicked this thread...

Olivia's picture

to see any more comments - and the "reads" were numbered 666! Evil

I am Antichristus.

Hahahahahahaa!

Olivia's picture

Those who do not choose to follow God will find themselves in a place of eternal separation from Him. This will be a place of torment only in the sense that people will be forever afflicted by the knowledge of what they have missed out on. [Dr. Jeff Obadiah Simmonds]

Right, just like atheists now, on Earth, are afflicted by the knowledge of what we're missing out on, I mean, christians just make it all look so desirable and "cool" - right down to their taste in boring-as-fuck clothes. Smiling

The one I really enjoy watching (in a nice way of course) is christians trying to put to death the deeds of the flesh. Yep, they've really nailed that one, eh Richard. Fornication, adultery, sensuality, lust and pride hardly ever happen within their circles at all, huh.

I think you'll find it is christians who tend to feel afflicted about what they're missing out on in this life. But they appease that by believing the tables will be turned after death, and then they'll be the ones enjoying all the guilt-free merriment.

I smell Magical Thinking.

Also, after death, how could anyone be forever afflicted by the knowledge of what they have missed out on (closeness with God), when they've been completely and utterly destroyed??

The definition of hell is being trapped...

Marcus's picture

...with Devil Be Goode in a chat room for an eternity being unable to escape his endless drivel.

Maybe he is Satan, after all?

Part 2

Richard Goode's picture

news flash..

Jules Troy's picture

so will you as will everyone.

when you die you simply cease to exist that is it that is all so in that regard you are correct in that when you die you will be completely destroyed..lights out no heaven no hell and no more macdonalds.

hell is here on earth rightt now.

hell is being brainwashed from the cradle to the grave that your life is not your own

hell is being made to feel guilt for wanting to have your slef intrest at heart but are taught that to be a good christian you must sacrifice your desires for a higher ideal and you are only  mo moral if you set aside your wants and needs for your christian brothers needs.

hell is being made to feel guilty for admiring a beautiful girl and feeling attracted to her.

hell is having to obey laws that have no roots in reality and deny human  nature.

hell is being told that if you set aside all that you may want and desire in life only then when you are a burnt out withered shell can you then die and reap the rewards of heaven.

it matters not to me if someone wants to believe these things..but i believe it to be the ultimate expression of evil to perpetrate these beliefs on others especially children who are intellectually vulnerable.

Don't shoot the messenger

Richard Goode's picture

you implied it..

I neither said nor implied that Olivia would be literally hauled off to a trash compactor.

What I said was that

Fire was the metaphor of the time. If Jesus came today, he would use a different metaphor.

Olivia will be completely and utterly destroyed.

you implied it..

Jules Troy's picture

well i will leave this thread with a quote  from manfred f. scheider

no one has to believe in athiesm it is the product of reason

say hi to goblin for me just dont act surprised when you dont get a reply.

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

... and then proceeded to tell her she is going to not burn but instead be hauled off to a trash compator...id say that statement is rather malevolent..

I'd say that statement is a friendly warning, not malevolent at all. Peace on earth, good will to men, etc.

I suggested that Trash is a better metaphor of today than is Gehenna. I didn't say she would be literally hauled off to a trash compactor.

Leonid

Richard Goode's picture

Don't you think it would be much better, if you rather start to worry about yourself?

Interesting idea.

Well ok then..

Jules Troy's picture

any post that i have ever read by olivia has shown me that she has a benevolent view of people in general and that she celebrates a true sense of life. she enjoys and values her life and those around her that share her views.

even on this thread she shared a fictional work by c.s. lewis and a short summary.

 

so for that you thanked her for the book review and then proceeded to tell her she is going to not burn but instead be hauled off to a trash compator...id say that statement is rather malevolent..

by all means carry on reading that bible ...im sure its going to help 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

goode that comment you posted about olivia very much shows the world what a small minded malevolent cretin you really are.

Alternatively, you could resile from your claims that I am really a small-minded malevolent cretin and that my comment very much shows this.

Hail Scum-Ra!

Richard Goode's picture

"Fire was the metaphor of the time. If Jesus came today, he would use a different metaphor."

I see so God is not omniscient, after all?

God is omniscient, but if he came today, he would use a different metaphor. (I don't know this, of course. It's educated guesswork.)

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

goode that comment you posted about olivia very much shows the world what a small minded malevolent cretin you really are.

No, it doesn't.

Please very much tell the world how you think it does.

Piers Anthony..

Jules Troy's picture

as far as fiction goes i rather enjoyed the incarnations of immortality.

he put a good spin on the incarnation of evil i was cheering for him the whole time.

 

goode that comment you posted about olivia very much shows the world what a small minded malevolent cretin you really are.  

Richard Goode

Leonid's picture

"Don't worry, Olivia. You won't be cast into the lake of fire. You'll be dragged into the trash."

Don't you think it would be much better, if you rather start to worry about yourself? For your non-orthodox exegesis and overall loutishness you may lick scorching frying pans with your dirty tongue for the next 100000 years.

Jesus Goode...

Marcus's picture

"Fire was the metaphor of the time. If Jesus came today, he would use a different metaphor."

I see so God is not omniscient, after all?

Are you sure you want to permanently delete Olivia?

Richard Goode's picture

Is that similar to what you believe to be true about the nature of hell?

No. But I'll put The Great Divorce on my reading list. Thanks. (Got to finish reading the Bible first ...)

Hell is a metaphorical garbage incinerator. In the Bible, fire is a symbol of complete and utter destruction. It is The Fire That Consumes.

Fire was the metaphor of the time. If Jesus came today, he would use a different metaphor. Don't worry, Olivia. You won't be cast into the lake of fire. You'll be dragged into the trash.

Previously on Hell

Richard Goode's picture

Olivia

Leonid's picture

"What Lewis wrote was really an allegory for life on earth."

How true! The deep fear of joy is a psychological hallmark created by the philosophical-religious trend of guilt and sacrifice which dominates man's soul for the last 2000 years.

Richard

Olivia's picture

The best allegory I've ever read on hell is C.S Lewis' "The Great Divorce".

In the story, the Grey Town is hell itself, a place of the soul's personal choosing - a purgatorial extension of the misery of life on earth, which can only get blacker over eternity.

When the omnibus transports these souls to the very outskirts of heaven, all they can feel is immense trepidation. Fear of the beautiful, physical density of the place, which their bodies are not yet fit for, the terrible, larger than life sounds (like flowing water), but above all, the deep fear of joy and anything that is absolute or unquestionable. Yet, all these souls need to do is to have the courage to reach out and accept heaven, but they find every excuse in the universe not to do that. The chapter when one soul finally does extend himself, in a moment of raw panic, is truly amazing to read - the transformation is so wonderous!

What Lewis wrote was really an allegory for life on earth. People think they don't deserve to be joyous, loved, certain or fulfilled, and so they aren't. They therefore choose hell on earth, instead of heaven.

Is that similar to what you believe to be true about the nature of hell?

Empty Discussion

Kyrel Zantonavitch's picture

Religion bores the hell out of me. Evil

christianity is in essence one big contradiction

Jules Troy's picture

one the one hand you have son of goblin saying that one must cherish the sanctity of ones soul and hold it in the highest regard.

on the other hand you have the practice of altruism thrown in to really f things up.

how can you cherish yourself while at the same time be asked to sacrifice yourself for a higher cause or be your brothers keeper.

 

nihilistic bullshit that has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with teaching man that his mind cannot know reality...we are all sinnersa dontcha know..but apparently priests raping little boys is ok..

Richard Goode

Leonid's picture

"1. Jesus Christ

2. Albert Einstein (a distant second)"

666. Leonid Fainberg (quite the dark horse, aren't you, Tarzan?)

Funny enough. I was hoping you mean Spinoza. Was Jesus Christ a Jew? We definitely know that his mother was Jewish, but his Father? Do you imply that He also a Jew? That would create very interesting theological problem. BTW, I noted that you qualified me as an Antichrist (666). And if I'm the dark horse, who are the other three? I suggest that you check the mark on your forehead as a matter of urgency. The judgement day is close!!! And as far as I remember Tarzan doesn't feature in this movie. So make up your mind: Antichrist, dark horse or Tarzan. Better off go and re-read John of Patmos-another sick Jew who gives to you ideas. Or maybe, try Spinoza for a change?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

Richard Goode's picture

... they always find rationalizations to dismiss them ("you should see it in the context of that time" ... )

Take context into account and it's "rationalization", ignore the context and it's "context-dropping".

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

They should choose: either

Richard Goode's picture

They should choose: either the bible is an authority and you swallow all its tenets, or it has no authority and you accept that it is a collection of stories with only entertainment value but no relevance to discovering the truth.

Non-Christians are always very good at telling others what to think.

Christians are always very

Peter's picture

Christians are always very good at selectively picking those parts from the bible with which they agree (in that case using the bible as if it is an infallible authority), ignoring the less savory parts. For the latter they always find rationalizations to dismiss them ("you should see it in the context of that time", "the translation is not correct", "but elsewhere in the bible you can read blah blah blah", etc.). They should choose: either the bible is an authority and you swallow all its tenets, or it has no authority and you accept that it is a collection of stories with only entertainment value but no relevance to discovering the truth.

Linz...

Robert's picture

That was a water BOARD, not water BED.

Just thought I'd clarify that.

How many Anglicans does it take to change a light bulb?

Richard Goode's picture

Christians have professed appalling theologies which made God into a sadistic monster. ... Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolutely that the only end is total non-being.

– the Church of England's Doctrine Commission, The Mystery of Salvation

... I must declare my mind honestly. I believe that endless torment is a hideous and unscriptural doctrine which has been a terrible burden on the mind of the church for many centuries and a terrible blot on her presentation of the Gospel. I should indeed be happy, if before I die, I could help in sweeping it away.

John Wenham, Universalism and the Doctrine of Hell

I find the concept intolerable and do not understand how people can live with it without either cauterising their feelings or cracking under the strain.

John Stott, Essentials : a liberal-evangelical dialogue

The hell doctrine is the worst error in the church.

– Anon

Festering in the Crypt

Richard Goode's picture

Eyes tied tight forever
Mouth wired shut forever
Body parts dissever
You will see no more, never

Lowered into the ground
You will never hear another sound
In your coffin you're bound
Underground, forever

To the earth you're now enslaved
To the creatures long depraved
Flesh has now turned to grey
As the larvae gnaw away

As you rot in your smallish tomb
Insects care not how you met your doom
In your casket eternally lie
Many were pleased to see you die

Fester in the crypt where you lie

Victims pass by
They watched you die

Flesh melts off of your frame
Infamous was your name
Years passed since you moved on
Nothing left but carrion

Festering in the Crypt

Annihilationism for Dummies

Richard Goode's picture

Perhaps ... Baade could just cut to the chase and explain the meaning of the following, if it is not what it seems to be:

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" Matthew 25:41

The fire is eternal. You're not.

Some charming Goblians ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

... on a subject obviously dear to where their hearts would be.

From Jesus' Teaching on Hell :

For example, we quote a Rev. J. Furniss [who else??!!], who said:

See on the middle of that red-hot floor stands a girl: she looks about sixteen years old. Her feet are bare. Listen; she speaks. “I have been standing on this red-hot floor for years! Look at my burnt and bleeding feet! Let me go off this burning floor for one moment!” The fifth dungeon is the red-hot oven. The little child is in the red-hot oven. Hear how it screams to come out; see how it turns and twists itself about in the fire. It beats its head against the roof of the oven. It stamps its little feet on the floor. God was very good to this little child. Very likely God saw it would get worse and worse, and would never repent, and so it would have to be punished more severely in hell. So God in His mercy called it out of the world in early childhood. (J. Furniss, The Sight of Hell [London and Dublin: Duffy], cited by Edward William Fudge, The Fire That Consumes [Houston: Providential Press, 1982], p. 416.)

Charles H. Spurgeon, renowned Baptist preacher, said:
When thou diest thy soul will be tormented alone-that will be a hell for it-but at the day of judgment thy body will join thy soul, and then thou wilt have twin hells, body and soul shall be together, each brimfull of pain, thy soul sweating in its inmost pore drops of blood and thy body from head to foot suffused with agony; conscience, judgment, memory, all tortured. Thine heart beating high with fever, thy pulse rattling at an enormous rate in agony, thy limbs cracking like the martyrs in the fire and yet unburnt, thyself put in a vessel of hot oil, pained yet coming out undestroyed, all thy veins becoming a road for the hot feet of pain to travel on, every nerve a string on which the devil shall ever play his diabolical tune. Fictions, sir! Again I say they are no fictions, but solid, stern truth. If God be true, and this Bible be true, what I have said is the truth, and you will find it one day to be so. (Charles H. Spurgeon, Sermon No. 66, New Park Street Pulpit, 2:105, cited by Edward William Fudge, The Fire That Consumes [Houston: Providential Press, 1982], p. 417.)

Only conceive that poor wretch in the flames, who is saying, “O for one drop of water to cool my parched tongue!” See how his tongue hangs from between his blistered lips! How it excoriates and burns the roof of his mouth as if it were a firebrand! Behold him crying for a drop of water. I will not picture the scene. Suffice it for me to close up by saying, that the hell of hells will be to thee, poor sinner, the thought that it is to be for ever. Thou wilt look up there on the throne of God-and on it shall be written, “for ever!” When the damned jingle the burning irons of their torments, they shall say, “For ever!” When they howl, echo cries, “For ever!” “For ever” is written on their racks, “For ever” on their chains; “For ever” burneth in the fire, “For ever” ever reigns.” (From a sermon preached in 1855, cited by Edward William Fudge, The Fire That Consumes [Houston: Providential Press, 1982], p. 417.)

Jonathan Edwards, famous Calvinist preacher of an earlier century, said:

So it will be with the soul in Hell; it will have no strength or power to deliver itself; and its torment and horror will be so great, so mighty, so vastly disproportioned to its strength, that having no strength in the least to support itself, although it be infinitely contrary to the nature and inclination of the soul utterly to sink; yet it will sink, it will utterly and totally sink, without the least degree of remaining comfort, or strength, or courage, or hope. And though it will never be annihilated, its being and perception will never be abolished: yet such will be the infinite depth of gloominess that it will sink into, that it will be in a state of death, eternal death.

To help your conception, imagine yourself to be cast into a fiery oven, all of a glowing heat, or into the midst of a glowing brick-kiln, or of a great furnace, where your pain would be as much greater than that occasioned by accidentally touching a coal of fire, as the heat is greater. Imagine also that your body were to lie there for a quarter of an hour, full of fire, as full within and without as a bright coal of fire, all the while full of quick sense; what horror would you feel at the entrance of such a furnace! And how long would that quarter of an hour seem to you!And how much greater would be the effect, if you knew you must endure it for a whole year, and how vastly greater still, if you knew you must endure it for a thousand years! O then, how would your heart sink, if you thought, if you knew, that you must bear it forever and ever! That after millions of millions of ages, your torment would be no nearer to an end, than ever it was; and that you never, never should be delivered! But your torment in Hell will be immeasurably greater than this illustration represents. How then will the heart of a poor creature sink under it! How utterly inexpressible and inconceiv­able must the sinking of the soul be in such a case. (Jonathan Edwards, cited by A. W. Pink, Eternal Punishment [Swengel, PA: Reiner Publications, n.d.], cited by Edward William Fudge, The Fire That Consumes [Houston: Providential Press, 1982], p. 417.)

The world will probably be converted into a great lake or liquid globe of fire, in which the wicked shall be overwhelmed, which will always be in tempest, in which they shall be tossed to and fro, having no rest day and night, vast waves and billows of fire continually rolling over their heads, of which they shall forever be full of a quick sense within and without; their heads, their eyes, their tongues, their hands, their feet, their loins and their vitals, shall forever be full of a flowing, melting fire, fierce enough to melt the very rocks and elements; and also, they shall eternally be full of the most quick and lively sense to feel the torments; not for one minute, not for one day, not for one age, not for two ages, not for a hundred ages, nor for ten thousand millions of ages, one after another, but forever and ever, without any end at all, and never to be delivered. (Cited by Gary Amirault, The Ancient Inventors and Modern Perpetrators of Hell, p. 4.)

Perhaps ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

... instead of endless reproductions of Rev Oobladee Ooblada, Baade could just cut to the chase and explain the meaning of the following, if it is not what it seems to be:

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'" Matthew 25:41

Apropos...

Marcus's picture

Christopher Hitchens, an atheist in a foxhole

By Tom Chivers

"There are no atheists in foxholes, goes the old saw. Well, it's not true, as Christopher Hitchens – a man of principle to the last – demonstrated.

Many of his adversaries – and there were many; he was not one for pacifying platitudes – had expressed a hope or an expectation that this most trenchant of unbelievers would repent on his deathbed. His final written work, about Nietzsche's fatuous aphorism "What does not kill me makes me stronger" and how it was demonstrably untrue, had inspired one, Mark Judge of the Daily Caller, to wonder whether it had finally come. But as he himself said in the last year or so of his life, any expression of faith which might issue from his dying body ("including but not limited to, 'I accept Jesus as my lord and savior,' or, 'Muhammad, peace be unto him, is the messenger of God,' or, 'the Lubavitcher rebbe is the true messiah and currently living in Brooklyn,'" as his friend Jeffrey Goldberg put it in The Atlantic) would not be coming from a Christopher Hitchens that Christopher Hitchens would recognise: "The entity making such a remark might be a raving, terrified person whose cancer has spread to the brain. I can't guarantee that such an entity wouldn't make such a ridiculous remark. But no one recognisable as myself would ever make such a ridiculous remark."...

Fearless reason, of course, was his defining feature: who would go so savagely after the hagiographied Mother Teresa, if they worried about what people thought of him? He was driven by reason, and followed it wherever it led. Death, final, absolute death, is a frightening thing: but Hitchens' reason told him (as mine tells me) that it is what we face, and it would be weak to hide from that fear behind stories of heaven. He is, now, nowhere: there is nothing which contains Christopher Hitchens' personality. But he made an impact in the world which will last longer than most. It's all any of us can hope for."

Richard

reed's picture

Greatest Jews...
1. Jesus.
2. Moses.

The greatest Jews who ever lived

Richard Goode's picture

1. Jesus Christ
2. Albert Einstein (a distant second)

...

666. Leonid Fainberg (quite the dark horse, aren't you, Tarzan?)

Note ...

Richard Goode's picture

... the questions Baade evades

Note that I have already answered two of the four questions, and declined to answer a third.

Do you believe differently, Baade?

Yes.

"Promises, promises!" Have a

Leonid's picture

"Promises, promises!"

Have a FAITH!!!

Purgatory

Richard Goode's picture

Me stuck in a terminal with you and your Islamapologetics, Leonid? That would be hell.

No, that would be purgatory. A false Catholic doctrine.

Note ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

... the questions Baade evades:

Do I believe that when I'm dead I stay in the ground? Yes! As Bertrand Russell said, "When I die I shall rot, and there's an end of it." Do you believe differently, Baade? On the basis of what evidence?

Do I believe that science will find a cure for death?! I don't know. It would be a tall order. Thwarting cells' inherent propensity to stop reproducing themselves and all. But science has achieved wonders, to be sure. I doubt it'll happen within my deathtime. Do you believe differently Baade?

And I'm afraid it just doesn't wash to disavow belief in hell while upholding Goblianity. Hell is part of Goblianity. Why bother with *any* of it?! Just because your domestic circumstances make it expedient to do so?! It's all rubbish, and disgusting rubbish.

Ooooooo!!!!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

You will be profiled, detained and interrogated with the water board and vibrator

Promises, promises!

Oh, yes

Leonid's picture

"Me stuck in a terminal with you and your Islamapologetics, Leonid?"

You don't have to worry about this. You will be profiled, detained and interrogated with the water board and vibrator for your beard and general suspicious Middle Eastern appearance. When they release you ( if ever) the Hell will be as a paradise for you.

Oh no!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

Me stuck in a terminal with you and your Islamapologetics, Leonid? That would be hell. Almost as bad as Baade's unlistening, relentless monotone. Who needs unquenchable fires with you two around?

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