Humor Me: This is the Most Proselytizing I Will Ever Do Here

Cornell's picture
Submitted by Cornell on Tue, 2012-03-06 02:35

Suppose for a moment that God existed.

Suppose the Universe had an intelligence of its own that was responsible for continued advance in sophistication of matter in the face of the universe's superficial tendency to decay.

Suppose there was a person that was responsible for life in all of its heroic, tragic, violent glory.

Wouldn't you want to know that person?

If there was even the slightest possibility that such a being existed, wouldn't you want to make some sort of attempt to contact it?

I would.

At the very least, I would send out to the Universe this prayer: "God, if you exist, then I would like to make contact with You;" what do you have to lose?

I have said what I have to say about it; I will not bring this up again unless one of you does.


Calling out Mr. Hubbard

Richard Goode's picture

Is reason your only absolute?

Leonid

Cornell's picture

That's awesome.

Conversation with God

Leonid's picture

"God, what is a million years for you?"-" Like a second for you, my son"

"God, what is a million dollars for you?"-" just like a penny for you, my son"

"Please, God, in such a case can you give me a million dollars?"-" In a second, my son"

I would allow about a...

Jules Troy's picture

Evil

0.00000000000000000000000000% chance that god exists..give or take a few zeros.

Don

Cornell's picture

The difference is that this doesn't cost you anything.

Do you allow for a 1% chance that God exists?

Cornell: “Suppose there was a

Don E. Klein's picture

Cornell: “Suppose there was a person that was responsible for life in all of its heroic, tragic, violent glory.

Wouldn't you want to know that person?

If there was even the slightest possibility that such a being existed, wouldn't you want to make some sort of attempt to contact it?”

Suppose there’s a huge pile of money, $100 million, and with that much money you could do whatever you want for the rest of your life.

Wouldn’t you want to have that money?

If there was even the slightest possibility you could get it, for example by investing $1 in a lottery ticket, wouldn’t you buy that ticket, never mind the insane odds?

The difference: there actually are lotteries with jackpots that big.

Yep

Jules Troy's picture

For man the basic means of survival is REASON. The ability to form concepts,grasp relationships,differences,similarities and to expand knowledge is the faculty of reason and yes it is absolute.  The process is thinking.  

Mark

Richard Goode's picture

Is reason your only absolute?

We'll see who's clutching at straws.

Straw ...

Mark Hubbard's picture

... clutching, Richard.

Nothing wrong with my premises.

Context: there are differences, obviously, to statements made by a man born in 1694, to 2004. And despite the superstition of his era, Voltaire still did so well in spite of it. Imagine if he were alive today.

Humour me

Richard Goode's picture

Is reason your only absolute?

The virtue of scholarship

Richard Goode's picture

Voltaire: 'Those who believe in absurdities are capable of committing atrocities'.

Here's what Voltaire actually said.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

And here's what Voltaire said next.

If the God-given understanding of your mind does not resist a demand to believe what is impossible, then you will not resist a demand to do wrong to that God-given sense of justice in your heart.

Check your premises.

Ha

Jules Troy's picture

The answer to the second question is what?  Jules is the antichrist and will be completely and utterly destroyed? Lol I got a laugh out of that thread Prof. Hume.

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

Also a very unlikely scenario but notttt impossible unlike goblin doing it.

Very unlikely? You think? Well, I know the answer to the second question.

You work heroic hours, Steve, but is reason your only absolute?

Why

Jules Troy's picture

Puzzled Are you looking to place your head in my ass? How flattering.  I am sorry I cannot comply as then I could no longer be able to say my shit doesn't stink.

Mark

Richard Goode's picture

You're talking of the Big Ever Loving G, Cornell is speaking of his Emergent God. Who knows what comic book of dastardly tricks this new God on the block is capable of?

You have a point.

You're a heroic being, Mark, but is reason your only absolute?

No shit

Richard Goode's picture

You should take your own advice and practice those 12 steps of rational discourse

You should take my advice and get your head out of your ass.

There was a little Mark

Richard Goode's picture

There was a little Mark
Who had a little mark
Right in the middle of his forehead;
And when he was good,
He was very, very good
But when he was bad he was wicked.

Yes goode

Jules Troy's picture

You should take your own advice and practice those 12 steps of rational discourse

Cossey  246 Goode -82

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

The matrix has addled your mind even more than the bible.

Goode 12, Cossey 0.

Clarke's Third Law

Richard Goode's picture

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Lol

Jules Troy's picture

The matrix has addled your mind even more than the bible.

Forgiven. Forgive me for alluding.

Richard Goode's picture

You just quote the Bible all the time.

The remainder of the time I quote without attribution.

For example, I just quoted E. Nelson Bridwell. Yesterday, I quoted Alex Hellid. (I'm somewhat surprised you missed that one.)

What I mean by Christian: believes in some conception of God. Accepts the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I misspoke. Whether or not you are a Christian doesn't depend on what you mean by 'Christian'. It depends on what 'Christian' means. And I put it to you that 'Christian' means somewhat more than what you mean by 'Christian'. A Christian believes in the divinity of Jesus and in the resurrection of Jesus.

Feel free to call me a Christian.

Steve

Richard Goode's picture

It differs greatly.

It differs.

Consider, instead, the theory that we are living in a computer simulation. How does the Biblical theory presented in Genesis 1:1-3 and John 1:1-5 differ from the theory that we are living in a computer simulation?

Goode gosh. Forgive me for assuming.

Cornell's picture

You just quote the Bible all the time.

What I mean by Christian: believes in some conception of God. Accepts the teachings of Jesus Christ.

ACC

Cornell's picture

If the being in question falls short of being universal in character, then the being is not God. That's not to say God doesn't have angels.

It depends

Richard Goode's picture

we Christians

What you mean 'we', Proto-Jesus?

I'm not saying you're a Christian.

I'm not saying you're not a Chistian.

I'm saying: it depends what you mean by 'Christian'.

Well Richard

Jules Troy's picture

It differs greatly.  See you figure god creates the universe and god was there before the universe and of course got bored with nothing so created the universe in 6 days then decided to powder his nose or take a nap on the seventh.

An advanced civilization would have had to start out somewerrreeee and at one time not been an advanced civilization.  Got bored and terraformed earth just for shits and giggles. Also a very unlikely scenario but notttt impossible unlike goblin doing it.

Arthur C. Clarke

Richard Goode's picture

A theory that an advanced civilization decided to use earth as a petri dish has more merit than the concept of god....

How does the concept of God differ from the concept of an advanced civilization that decided to use earth as a petri dish?

Goode

Cornell's picture

Mark is not the beast. When the beast comes, we Christians will miss the good old atheists; atheism and Christianity will be both alike be illegal.

Mark "of the Beast" Hubbard

Richard Goode's picture

I can't trust a mystic because he or she is never speaking from a mind they own.

So who does? Oh, that's right. The God you say you don't believe in.

Mark

Cornell's picture

It is my opinion that only a fool says "I will never change the way I look at things, regardless of what I experience, and regardless of what new information comes my way."

Knowledge is contextual. Knowledge can -- and should -- change character.

Can I conceive of being a different person? No. That would require a wider set of experiences than I have at present.

Richard

Mark Hubbard's picture

You're talking of the Big Ever Loving G, Cornell is speaking of his Emergent God. Who knows what comic book of dastardly tricks this new God on the block is capable of?

Don't throw Christians to the lions

Richard Goode's picture

Now take it to the goblianity thread were it fucking belongs or stop posting.

You're no fun anymore.

A breach of the peace. When I

Mark Hubbard's picture

A breach of the peace. When I asked you if your emergent god asked you to breach the peace you said:

I would have to become a much different person. As I am now, I could not.

You never absolutely stated you could not become a much different person. Ask Seymourblogger about the slipperiness of language.

Bottom line, I can't trust a mystic because he or she is never speaking from a mind they own.

Mark "of the Beast" Hubbard

Richard Goode's picture

all you have to do to gain eternal happiness is steal that man's money over there

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not misrepresent (bear false witness).

Mark

Cornell's picture

Can you show me one statement I have made here that would seem to be a breach of peace?

We'll leave the mass extinctions to science where they belong ..

Mark Hubbard's picture

... because it's all about morality.

I said: If your emergent god demanded that you contravene a morality of man qua man, would you? If not, why not?"

And you replied, badly, that: He hasn't so far. I don't think that He would. If He did, then in order for me to do it I would have to become a much different person. As I am now, I could not.

Oh dear. I read into that you leaving enough room open to slip on a mask and do the Big Loving'G's nasty work, Cornell. That's not good enough.

Voltaire: 'Those who believe in absurdities are capable of committing atrocities'.

And you just proved it.

No free and peaceful society is possible with a mystic.

Mark

Cornell's picture

"Yes, but you need to answer my question to get my point, Cornell, which is morality. If your emergent god demanded that you contravene a morality of man qua man, would you? If not, why not?"

He hasn't so far. I don't think that He would. If He did, then in order for me to do it I would have to become a much different person. As I am now, I could not.

"Well, give objective proof of your emergent god (and I don't accept you talking to him).

I'll answer for you. You can't."

Why do you think mass extinctions occurred here on Earth? I'm certain you have a pet theory. I'm just as certain you can't prove said theory.

That having been said, I'm not here to "prove" God to you. You cannot disprove that God exists can you? I'm here to ask what you would do, were it the case that God existed. I'm not asking for faith.

Jules

Cornell's picture

Is the idea of the matter of the universe adding up to an intelligent being any more far fetched than spontaneous generation?

Yes, but you need to answer

Mark Hubbard's picture

Yes, but you need to answer my question to get my point, Cornell, which is morality. If your emergent god demanded that you contravene a morality of man qua man, would you? If not, why not?

And I'm here to present it within the strict boundaries of objective thought.

Well, give objective proof of your emergent god (and I don't accept you talking to him).

I'll answer for you. You can't.

And the whole debate is irrelevant for me from that point.

God universal intelligence or what ever you want to call goblin

Jules Troy's picture

Cannot be included in the same sentence as objective thought.

A theory that an advanced civilization decided to use earth as a petri dish has more merit than the concept of god....

Mark

Cornell's picture

I'm not here asking for donations.

I'm not here to ask you to join a church (as I don't identify with any denomination myself).

I'm certainly not here to preach fire and brimstone.

I'm here to propose a simple idea.

And I'm here to present it within the strict boundaries of objective thought.

Cornell

Mark Hubbard's picture

Does the idea of a universal intelligence offend you?

If the 'universal intelligence' promises you eternal life and happiness beyond your imagination, and that the alternative is at best an eternal blank, at worst, eternal pain, all you have to do to gain eternal happiness is steal that man's money over there, are you going to steal his money? And let's not call it stealing, lets call it redistributing income because that man has less money than you, thus needs it to feed his eight children.

Jules

Cornell's picture

Does the idea of a universal intelligence offend you?

Yup

Jules Troy's picture

On that thread not make more of them..jussst saying.

Jules

Cornell's picture

There was an entire post made "calling me out" on what I put in my profile. I think I'm entitled to make a post explaining my position.

Richard

Cornell's picture

Who said anything about "need?"

I feel no need for a god, so

Richard Wiig's picture

I feel no need for a god, so I can't say what I'd feel.

Great

Jules Troy's picture

Now take it to the goblianity thread were it fucking belongs or stop posting.

Yes.

Cornell's picture

Yes.

I have said what I have to

Mark Hubbard's picture

I have said what I have to say about it; I will not bring this up again unless one of you does.

Is that an absolute God damned promise?

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