Fifty shades of grey

Marcus's picture
Submitted by Marcus on Mon, 2012-07-30 13:31
At the local supermarket (just a city branch)

I suspect Ayn Rand would have loved this.

I watched a documentary about this book last night, the fastest selling paperback in the UK of all time. It's a best seller in the US too having sold over 20 million copies. Fifty Shades of Grey is a 2011 erotic novel by British author E. L. James.

It's predominantly read by women. It features a lot of BDSM sex and romance between a 22 year old college student and a 27 year old successful businessman. Her name is Anastasia Steele, his name is Christian "Grey", so for once the yanks had to adapt to the British spelling (and not vis versa).

Anyway, I haven't read it yet and I am not planning to either.

I am intrigued why it is so popular amongst women though. After watching the documentary I still don't know. (My wife hasn't read it either and doesn't plan to).

Here are some ideas:

1) They secretly want to be BDSM dominated.

2) This is an untaped market for female porn.

3) Escapism.

4) Romance.

Does anyone here have a clue as to what this cultural phenomenon means?


( categories: )

Hahaah

Jules Troy's picture

Too funny!

Fifty Shades of Chicken!

Marcus's picture

How sad it is...

Marcus's picture

...that a women presents a documentary on the History of Masculinity on BBC radio.

I tell you these Ladies are looking for a good hard man.

Just an old-fashioned love story, says EL James

Marcus's picture

Linz should do his own take on it called, "50 shades of gay."

Please don't take that as an insult Linz, compared to this novel I really think you could write a bestseller with an Objectivist theme.

50 Shades of Grey? Just an old-fashioned love story, says EL James

It's not all about the sex, says 50 Shades of Grey author EL James. Women readers just want a passionate romance.

"It is a tale of erotic obsession so racy that fans know it as “mummy porn”.

Yet EL James has claimed that the extraordinary success of her Fifty Shades of Grey novels is down to old-fashioned romance rather than sex.

The trilogy has sold 31 million copies worldwide, overtaking Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and The Da Vinci Code in Britain, because it tells a simple love story, the author said.

However, James said she was unhappy that teenage girls are reading the books because the content is strictly adults-only.

The 49-year-old writer made a rare public appearance on Wednesday night to promote Fifty Shades of Grey: The Classical Album, a tie-in featuring music that “inspired” her writing and features in the books. It includes pieces by Chopin, Debussy and Rachmaninoff.

Her hero, brooding billionaire Christian Grey, plays classical piano when he is not seducing a young woman, Anastasia Steele, in a variety of sado-masochistic scenarios.

Asked if female readers were attracted by the adventurous bedroom scenes or the fantasy of dating a ludicrously rich man, James replied: “No, it’s the love story. Women like to read a passionate love story.

“There is sex but as the books go on the sex changes as the relationship changes. You see the evolution of it.”

James said she was inundated with emails from readers who said the books had changed their lives and, in many cases, saved their marriages.

“Women of all ages are reading it - from women at university right through to women in their nineties,” she said. “I get the most TMI [too much information] emails you could ever hope for. People go and try this stuff.

“I hope teenagers aren’t reading it but I think a few are because I get emails from them as well, and I wish they weren’t.”

The author - real name Erika Mitchell - said that the rise of e-readers such as the Kindle allowed women to read the books without embarrassment.

She explained: “E-readers have been very liberating for people because they can read whatever they like with no judgment.

“In fact, I designed the book covers because in my early thirties I read a lot of romantic fiction when I was slogging into and out of London on the Tube, and they had these horrible covers with women with their clothes falling off.

“I hated that, so I designed discreet covers where nobody would know it’s a really salacious novel.”

James said her next book is likely to be a sequel written from Christian Grey’s point of view."

Love Isn't What It Used To Be

Rosie's picture

Marcus

Rosie's picture

The contract he gets his submissives to sign is actually legally unenforceable. He knows that and Anastasia (I think) is the first one to recognise this also - she is a smart girl. However, his feelings for her are such that he actually doesn't require her to sign it anyway.

I guess there will never be just one reason, but many reasons, why it appeals (or doesn't appeal) to different people - just as is the case for every book, film and piece of art or music.

It is quite interesting that hardly anyone on this site has read it - perhaps you should read it yourself. Only a couple of dollars to buy the whole trilogy on a kindle if you have one. Why doesn't your wife want to read it?

The documentary was asking...

Marcus's picture

...why is this book so popular with women?

There was no one single conclusion.

They interviewed different women and got different answers. That is what intrigued me.

Some said it was raunchy with a cheeky grin.

Others said they liked the romance.

At least one woman said she liked that the idea of a man taking control and responsibilty over her.

Some women said it was badly written and they didn't understand why it was popular.

Some said it would give men the wrong idea about what women wanted in a relationship.

A middle aged married BDSM couple said they enjoyed that type of sex. They didn't have a contract, but they had a spreadsheet list of things she liked to do and he liked to do to her.

Anyway, I'm sure it will be shown in NZ at some point. Most UK documentaries are.

Marcus

Rosie's picture

Yes, I read the description from the link to "documentary" but it didn't really tell me what the documentary actually said fully. I gather it looked at some consequences of the huge book sales such as increased purchases of BDSM equipment! It mentioned that it was going to examine some of the other books under "erotica" and compare this book with them. What did they have to say about that? And what were the other books they compared to it?

Thank you for posting the additional three youtube clips.

Rosie, did you read the description...

Marcus's picture

...from the link I posted above?

Here is something from US TV:

By the way, the movie will be released soon.

It seems hollywood is not sure how to broach the topic having one sober and one saucy trailer.

Fred

Rosie's picture

"She said she was bored by the naughty bits and tended to skip over them, but was intrigued by the train-wreck relationship and wanted to see where it went.

Sure. And I told her that I once used to read Playboy for the articles."

Very funny! Laughing out loud

But your wife was probably being truthful. I, too, was bored by the (repetitious and often tedious) lovemaking scenes and skipped over them also - apart from the scenes from the Red Room of Pain (where they used the BDSM equipment and there was something new that I could learn)!

Marcus

Rosie's picture

There is a documentary made about this trilogy? I would liked to have seen what it had to say.

I read these three books about three weeks or so ago. It is not very "literary" in its style of writing but a very engaging story all the same. It is perhaps a bit like - slightly better than - a Mills & Boon but I would say very similar to that style of writing and would certainly capture that audience and perhaps a slightly wider net because it is clearly written by someone who loves literature (and there are many references and fun with this), has a great sense of humour and has explored the subject of BDSM and written about it in a practical, very realistic way and its "theraputive" or "healing" uses , almost, within different types of relationship. From this angle, it was actually quite educational!

The themes of the book are loyalty, trust and the power of love. These themes are repeated and symbolised through BDSM in relation to the two protagonists (Christian and Anastasia) and in different ways in relation to Christian and Anastasia and their respective relationships with (a) Christian's former submissives, who appear from time to time, and (b) their respective families (c) Anastasia's friends (Christian doesn't have any) and (d) Christian's bodyguards, servants and employees (Anastasia doesn't have any!).

What did the documentary have to say about it, Marcus?

PS On reading the rest of the thread, I agree with all of Olivia's comments and, in terms of these books, I would say that Christian's complete devotion, desire and undivided attention to Anastasia (and Anastasia only) is what appeals because it is what all women would want and wish for in their man and, if he were to show that level of commitment and single desire for her alone, the book presents the unbounded reciprocity in all things that he would receive from her in so doing.

To the person who talked about his gf having sex with some stranger after knowing him 25 minutes, to me this can mean only one thing. She was not made to feel desirable by her bf and probably also felt that his commitment to her was weak and, as a result of this, I would imagine she took an opportunity to allow herself to feel desirable, at least. It may not have been a mature thing to do, and she may well have even felt lousy about herself afterwards, but she would have restored something in her that her bf had reduced to probably zero - I would say - by the time she chose to act in that way.

EL James's husband speaks out

Marcus's picture

Meet Mr Fifty Shades: EL James's husband speaks out

"Erika wrote Fifty Shades to entertain herself and a few online friends. She never dreamed it would become a bestseller, still less a landmark in publishing or a figure of speech.

Our families and friends were, and are, as thrilled and proud and as amazed as we are, and we soon realised everyone in our street, and eventually the entire neighbourhood, knew exactly who EL James was. All the locals have been lovely, and said very little about it, apart from the occasional polite request for Erika to sign a book. Journalists ask if fans turn up on our doorstep asking silly questions. No, but journalists do. Do we have a dungeon? Or a Red Room of Pain? Maybe, and maybe there's a helicopter pad on the roof in case Christian Grey drops in for a spanking. Fifty Shades Of Grey is a fantasy – have they forgotten what that means? Do they chase JK Rowling down the street daring her to use her Avra Kedavra spell? Do they ask Hilary Mantel how many courtiers she's beheaded?...

That cynical old hack Maguire would mutter that my novel is getting this coverage because I'm Mr EL James. Well, of course it is. But, like most novelists, I'm hardly going to refuse publicity. I'm not a masochist. And that's all I'm going to say about our sex life."

Exactly

Frediano's picture

Lindsay:

Especially given the current popularity of this book, I'm sure what he meant was "incontrovertible rape,' as in, perceived as rape by both parties and not part of some role playing sex, like in the book. But the topic brings forward so many emotional responses that, in a political campaign, it was usable against him, and so grossly inartful(in the sense of political reality.)

However, with the added theory about rape induced contraception he placed not just one but both feet in his mouth, and all in service to a principle which I think contradicts considerations of free association. I don't believe the state has an interest in abortion; the considerations and consequences of forced association with rape all have to do with the acts of the perp, not the victim, IMO.

The agendas of the inartful speaker and his associates all have to do with the forced association of their religious beliefs onto the lives of others, and IMO, the state has no business aiding in forced association of any kind, for any reason; this nation no longer even has a draft, so for what possible reason could this nation (or any free nation) ever justify forced association?

That this particular idiot is a Republican matters little; the Democrats may be the No Hope For Freedom Party, but the alternative GOP has major bats in the attic, and has been the False Hope For Freedom Party for decades.

regards,
Fred

Puzzling

Lindsay Perigo's picture

I have watched coverage of this and been astonished that no one has tried to explain what the guy meant by "legitimate rape." Did he mean "incontrovertible rape"?

"Legitimate Rape"

Frediano's picture

Some candidate for Senate in the US totally stepped in it the other day by inartfully using the term 'legitimate rape.' Given the popularity of this book, I could almost (but not quite) see the need to qualify the term 'rape.' But then he doubled down by putting forth some nonsense about 'legitimate rape' being a kind of natural almost 100% effective contraception.

I haven't read the book, and so, I'll ask my wife(and risk being slapped)but ... given the activity described in this book, if it looks like rape, and sounds like rape, and has all the outward characteristics of rape, what is clear is, it still isn't rape. And the reason it is not is exactly why forced association of any kind is and should be deplorable; what makes rape 'rape' has nothing to do with sex. And most forms of forced association have nothing to do with sex either, but share what is (in the extreme) the characteristic that makes rape 'rape.'

Rape is clearly never justified; so why is forced association -often- justified by political argument?

regards,
Fred

Marcus...

Olivia's picture

By the laws of nature...Olivia and yourself should be humping each others brains out right now.

And what laws of nature are those again?

That's right Olivia...

Marcus's picture

...and you got me there without even reading the book Smiling

Marcus

Olivia's picture

You completely answered your own question about the popularity of the book.

Telling men that taking a woman, in any context, is equivalent to rape. Telling women they should feel guilty for wanting it too. The true scandal is that heterosexual women and men ever took them seriously. Heterosexual women have themselves to blame for the rise of the "metrosexual" man. No wonder this book is flying off the shelves.

Smiling

Passive aggressive too.

Olivia's picture

The question then remains: why are so many men today weak and supplicating?

Their weakness and supplication sets them up to be passive aggressive. Which means that on this point of sexual interplay, they don't have the self-esteem or confidence to openly take. Instead, many of them act as if they don't really care about intimacy, mistakenly thinking "aloofness" (often accompanied by detached sulkiness), will make his woman bring on the games (as if he's a passive bystander). Bad mistake because both start to doubt their own desirability and a competitive cycle kicks in. Very unromantic. Right about this time, either one might start to look outside the relationship for validation of a sexy flavour, even if it's just to provoke jealousy in the other.

Weakness and supplication just breed impotence and relationship death, because they kill honesty.

Romantic Ownership

Doug Bandler's picture

But Rand had it right in the sense that a woman doesn't want her man to "ask her permisson" to have sex with her. She wants him to take her, which makes her feel desirable and triggers her sexual arousal.

Yes, she was anticipating the Ev-Psych approach to human sexuality; ie women are attracted to male psychological strength and dominance. Women need this they way men need female beauty.

In Rand's art, the rape scene encompasses our widest abstractions in a single act. Remember that Dominique was being an arrogant, superior little bitch and trying to act as if she didn't give a shit.

And Roark flipped the script on her by not chasing her. He remained aloof. The Game community would describe this as demonstrating "non-neediness"; the one thing women value above all else.

If the bond between them feels intimate on a level which is not only about sex, but also about fidelity, a man can comfortably just take - and she gets to trust the adventure (which makes her a very good fuck).

Excellent. What you have described is true "romantic ownership". In one sense this is the ultimate form of "merit-based" sexuality. The man has proven his psycho-sexual strength and savvy and the women rewards him for it with every perverted thing his heart desires.

The question then remains: why are so many men today weak and supplicating? Altruism, egalitarianism, Progressive education. Today's culture just pushes men in the direction of pedastalizing women which is the one sure way to turn them off.

I find sexual dynamics to be fascinating. O'ists rarely have anything good to say on this subject. This thread is rare.

Good point

Doug Bandler's picture

...and of course it is the feminist movement that has fucked it up for women big time.

Telling men that taking a woman, in any context, is equivalent to rape.

Exactly. Feminism has castrated men and thus resulted in arrogance, assholery and indifference being interpreted as strength. This is why "bad boys" get laid so much. Its also why women are the worst where feminism is the strongest; ie the Anglo-American world. Women are still by and large feminine in Eastern Europe, South America and the Asian world.

IMO, its today's egalitarian influenced altruism which has destroyed masculinity and thus resulted in the warped dating / sexual marketplace. Women in the 1950s were far more decent and feminine but Leftism/feminism considered that "oppression".

Big picture, the Left threw out morality and all moral standards when it rejected religion. Thus the nihilistic nature of post-1950s Western culture. Only Rand can turn this mess around. A secular, naturalist moral code that believes in moral virtue. No other secular movement can claim that. Actually, this is all still part of Kant's legacy. He would be shocked to realize that he killed female felicity and chastity.

Good point Olivia...

Marcus's picture

...and of course it is the feminist movement that has fucked it up for women big time.

Telling men that taking a woman, in any context, is equivalent to rape.

Telling women they should feel guilty for wanting it too.

They're all lesbians anyway which is why they can get away with implying that all male penetration of a female is rape.

The true scandal is that heterosexual women and men ever took them seriously.

Heterosexual women have themselves to blame for the rise of the "metrosexual" man.

No wonder this book is flying off the shelves.

Nope again...

Olivia's picture

I had such high hopes. Wasn't Olivia claiming to get off on the rape scene in the Fountainhead at one stage?

That would not have been me. "To get off" implies sexual arousal. I don't remember feeling that when I read it.... and I would remember that Eye.

But Rand had it right in the sense that a woman doesn't want her man to "ask her permisson" to have sex with her. She wants him to take her, which makes her feel desirable and triggers her sexual arousal. If the bond between them feels intimate on a level which is not only about sex, but also about fidelity, a man can comfortably just take - and she gets to trust the adventure (which makes her a very good fuck). By the way, I think a lot of women today take this part for granted with men, their fidelity I mean. It should be rewarded and reciprocation is the least they can do.

In Rand's art, the rape scene encompasses our widest abstractions in a single act. Remember that Dominique was being an arrogant, superior little bitch and trying to act as if she didn't give a shit. She did. I think the heart of it is permission/submission between a man and a woman romantically, which is not only about sex. Notice that after Dominique marries Keating and then Wynand, Roarke doesn't go on a fuck-fest of New York feminine society. His fidelity is to Dominque (even if she doesn't value it yet). If he can't have her, he doesn't want anything... at least for a while.

By the laws of nature...

Marcus's picture

...Olivia and yourself should be humping each others brains out right now.

Nothing New

Doug Bandler's picture

This is nothing new. Nancy Friday's books have been on the market for years and they're all about female sex fantasies. The offer a window into the female mind.

Bottom line: women are sexual beings and have fantasies about kinky and often rough sex. Of course, they fantasize about having such sex with Alpha males; ie charismatic and dominant men.

Thanks Olivia and Fred...

Marcus's picture

"I have zero interest in reading or watching other people have sex."

You just destroyed hypothesis number 2, damn it!

I had such high hopes. Wasn't Olivia claiming to get off on the rape scene in the Fountainhead at one stage?

God help me...

Frediano's picture

I haven't read the book. My wife has.

She said she was bored by the naughty bits and tended to skip over them, but was intrigued by the train-wreck relationship and wanted to see where it went.

Sure. And I told her that I once used to read Playboy for the articles. So it's all good.

Nope...

Olivia's picture

However, have you read the book Olivia? Does it appeal to you?

I have zero interest in reading or watching other people have sex. I only care about it when it relates directly to me. Selfish, huh? Eye

Maybe

Doug Bandler's picture

When we are being fucked and loved by a sexy, dominant male, we're actually wired to not want sex with other sexy, dominant males. Our loyalty quite naturally kicks in.

Again, I really want to believe this but I have seen evidence to the contrary. But I'll hold out hope...

That's true Olivia...

Marcus's picture

...once you get the sperm donor it is important he sticks around to take responsibility for his offspring, from an evolutionary point of view. Loyalty, yes. Fidelity, not always.

However, have you read the book Olivia? Does it appeal to you?

Not really.

Olivia's picture

Women are wired to fuck every sexy, dominant male that crosses their path.

When we are being fucked and loved by a sexy, dominant male, we're actually wired to not want sex with other sexy, dominant males. Our loyalty quite naturally kicks in.

"Unrestrained Sexual Vamps"

Doug Bandler's picture

Maybe the ancient Greeks had it right all along? Women are simply unrestrained sexual vamps who will wash men up the rocks sooner or later.

There is more truth in this than you realize. BTW, this is what hypergamy is and why every religion always seeks to restrain it - to prevent violent competition by males from the consequences of the unrestrained sexual urges of the female psyche. I'm not a Conservative but this is why true Conservatism rejects true Liberalism; the view that the human animal, especially the female human animal, can not handle freedom especially sexual freedom.

Women are wired to fuck every sexy, dominant male that crosses their path. That served the interests of the species back in the Paleolithic world where women were old by 25 and burdened with 5 kids. But put that same female human animal in the modern industrial world of material abundance and sexual liberation and this is why your girlfriend fucks the unemployed wanna-be rock star in Mexico after only knowing him for 25 minutes.

Yes, a rational culture would produce better women, and men. But barring genetic engineering, women are emotion-driven incubators. They are also the most dangerous animal on this Earth. Tread carefully...

Female Hypergamy On Display

Doug Bandler's picture

The anti-capitalist elements are non-essential. This book is more evidence that women are attracted to psychologically dominant men. Really, that O'ists should question this when Rand herself dramatized this so well. Just think of the Roark-Dominique "rape" scene. Its pure dominance and rough sex. Rand was a world class philosopher but she was also a woman. Here's my take on why she slept with Branden: her husband "went Beta"; ie he lost his alpha swagger. If he had swatted her ass every now and then and teased the fuck out of her she probable would never have wanted to sleep with Branden. Even Rand herself in her 50s was subject to the female hypergamic sex drive - ie the drive to sleep with the most charasmatic and dominant men.

Anyway, here is a Game blogger's take on '50 Shades of Grey' and 'Twighlight' (its literary cousin):

http://rationalmale.wordpress....

These women don’t just want to build a better beta, they want to tame the alpha. In fact, I think the former is just another way they are trying to approach the latter. They want to take an inherrently unsafe activity and make it safe. They want to submit to a man without having to submit; they want a man who can tame their feral self. They want him to trip their danger signals. Even better if he is a stranger from a strange land.

They wan’t this all to happen without giving up their freedom; they want to play this out in the context of serial monogamy, so they can feel loved while also claiming their promiscuity is moral. They want to lose controll to a string of strangers who have all of the hallmarks of very dangerous men, and they want a promise that this will always end well.

They want to know that this will be safe, without it losing the excitement of it feeling unsafe. They are telling men to build a sort of serial monogamy amusement park where they can ride the roller coaster and experience the fear of falling or crashing, while knowing that just behind the scenes grown ups are actually in charge and are responsible for them safely feeling unsafe.

One more thing. As I mentioned above they don’t want to be hemmed in. So instead of building an actuall amusement park, they want roller coasters to spring up randomly in the same exact circumstances where the real danger they mimik would appear. They want to be driving their car on the freeway one instant, and the next experience the fear of careening out of controll the next. They want to impulsively jump off the edge of the Grand Canyon and have a parachute appear and deploy at the last minute. And all they ask is your guarantee that all of this will be safe.

I really wish O'ists would address the subject of female hypergamy and the psycho-sexual dynamics of the human female. O'ists that I have read deal with sex are little better than gender egalitarians (Diana Hsieh), something Rand was not.

Did not know that

Jmaurone's picture

I've seen clips of the movie in a documentary about horror films, Terror In the Aisles, but didn't not know it was a Stoker book...

A lesser known fact...

Marcus's picture

...is that the follow up to Dracula by Bram Stoker (considered to be a prude) was the Lair of the White Worm. This was about a female monster living in a hole who tries to lure the male hero to his doom.

It was supposed to be a representation of Stoker's greatest fears.

Love bites...

Jmaurone's picture

Marcus, that's not new with BLADE. It's called the vagina dentata, and has a long history:

From Wiki:

In folklore

Such folk stories are frequently told as cautionary tales warning of the dangers of sex with strange women and to discourage rape.[1]

Erich Neumann relays one such myth in which "a fish inhabits the vagina of the Terrible Mother; the hero is the man who overcomes the Terrible Mother, breaks the teeth out of her vagina, and so makes her into a woman."[2]

The legend also appears in the mythology of the Chaco and Guiana tribes of South America. In some versions, the hero leaves one tooth.[3] An Ainu language tale containing this element was published as "The Island of Women" by Basil Hall Chamberlain, where it was described as a well known Japanese tale by E. B. Tylor.[4]
Metaphorical usage

In her controversial best-seller Sexual Personae (1991), Camille Paglia wrote:

The toothed vagina is no sexist hallucination: every penis is made less by every vagina, just as mankind, male and female, is devoured by mother nature.[5]

In his book, The Wimp Factor, Stephen J. Ducat expresses a similar view, that these myths express the threat sexual intercourse poses for men who, although entering triumphantly, always leave diminished.[6]

There were also about half...

Marcus's picture

...of women who said (as represented tongue-in-cheek in the clip I posted above) that this book gives men the wrong impression about what they want from a man.

The other half of women said that they like it when a man takes control of them because it frees them of responsibility.

Sounds to me like the latter are being more honest.

By the way, the other day I came across the film Blade III: trinity.

I just saw one scene in which the hero Wesley Snipes is told that the head vampire, a women, has her fangs in her pussy.

How's that for explicit symbolism?

The documentary did show...

Marcus's picture

...some women complaining about the book.

One said that she had been fighting for women's rights all her life and FSOG will set the feminist movement back fifty years.

50 SHADES fad

Jmaurone's picture

As if it's some new thing...these women never heard of THE STORY OF O? Ann Rice's SLEEPING BEAUTY trilogy? THE FOUNTAINHEAD?

(I have to wonder how many of these women, when confronted with Rand, would otherwise attack for the "rape" scene...it's amazing how Rand gets savaged for that, but this GRAY book becomes a phenomenon...)

Ross...

Marcus's picture

...what was the name of this publication whereby slave owners were butt-fucking young slave girls? My mother got kicked out of school for reading Lady Chattetley's Lover. This is in the days when it was still a banned book.

Maybe the ancient Greeks had it right all along? Women are simply unrestrained sexual vamps who will wash men up the rocks sooner or later.

So ...

Lindsay Perigo's picture

... in fact I'm running a site for recovering Catholics?

I always said Objectivism's problem was that it attracted lapsed Mormons (like Shayne) with all their baggage. I *thought* I was joking!!

A worthy hypothesis Ross

gregster's picture

It worked before I knew what Objectivist meant. And that Ian Cross God Boy movie..

There's no doubt...

Ross Elliot's picture

...that the Catholic hypocrisy goes two ways: nunnish or slutish.

There's no happy medium. I have no experience of this theory but I suspect a fallen nun would root you raw. And her guilt in the matter would be a prime opportunity for an Objectivist man to show her the error of her ways. I mean this in the most wholesome and wicked sense...

That's how I compartmentalised it

gregster's picture

Perhaps, and I dislike saying perhaps, it was fiction geared to ready virginal Catholics girls for the Neanderthal approaches of the average backward Catholic boys.

Clan of the cave bear?

Marcus's picture

Did I miss a trick?

I though the was for scientific interest.

Not that I've read it, but that's what some folks told me.

That takes me back Ross, yes

gregster's picture

and that Clan of the Cave Bear smut. My pretend-Catholic mother had all that.

Cripes!!

Lindsay Perigo's picture

And here was I thinking I was running a wholesome family site! Eye

Listen...

Ross Elliot's picture

...when I was a young teen, I remember a genre of fiction that my mother and older sisters read, and it all seemed to be related to slave ships, southern plantations, overseers fucking slave girls, white mistresses being fucked by massively-hung slaves, etc.

Now that's just a slice of time, and so is this. It's populist fiction.

I was at a bookstore today and Fifty Shades of Grey was flying off the shelves. Seriously, if women are craving a little over-the-knee spanky-spanky, then I say good: a glowing bum is a pretty wicked precursor to good sex.

Nice, Robert...

Ross Elliot's picture

..."If you want a deeper hypothesis to chew, have a look at how the perception of the desirable urban man has metamorphasized into a metrosexual not-too-bright, not-too-decisive sissy obsessed with hair and nail-care."

Yup, dizzy bitches, and male.

She must have...

Marcus's picture

...good taste Eye

My wife

Shane's picture

bought this on her Kindle following numerous recommendations from her friends (much to my delight).

She was unable to read it as she felt it was so poorly written (again, much to my delight).

Rand would have loved him...

Robert's picture

we'll agree to disagree here mainly because I think the argument is asinine - the lady herself isn't here to speak for herself and it's her opinion that counts.

And we'll agree to disagree over the merits of the hero too.

I'd have thought that had a formal agreement been required, a hand-shake would have sufficed in such circumstances. I personally can't imagine a captain of industry so enamored with paperwork that he'd insist on it intruding on in his personal life - to the point that it would delay him. Indeed, I'd have thought that such punctiliousness would have been an encumbrance in the 21st business world.

Then again it could be me. I thought Wuthering Heights' Heathcliffe was a useless git too. Maybe I just don't appreciate "complex brooding heroes."

As they say these days: "What...ever!"

Robert you are talking bollocks...

Marcus's picture

...this is exactly up Rand's alley. She would have loved the Mrs Robinson relationship Grey has when he was younger too. Probably would have reminded her of Nathaniel, forged with Rearden steel.

For the last four years of Christian's life, he has entered into agreements with fifteen women, signed, sealed, and delivered for them to be his "sub" for a 90 day period though he only sees them during the weekend. He has a "playroom" in his home at Escala, that contains toys and whips and such. Christian is what he calls a "Dominant," someone who takes pleasure in owning, possessing, and controlling every aspect of a "Submissive's" life, most importantly their sexual life.

The women he brings into his life are always there willingly, and according to him, already knew and enjoyed the BDSM lifestyle. Christian even has a written agreement for his woman to sign, especially a non-disclosure agreement which makes it legally impossible for women to discuss the private natures of their time at Christian's suite. His contract ranges from eating habits, exercising, what they can wear, safe words, "hard limits" (sexual acts that Submissives absolutely will not do) and "soft limits" (sexual acts that Submissives may/may not be interested in exploring) and beyond. Christian states multiple times that he does not look for love during these relationships; they remain purely sexual and for his satisfaction. This is also the only relationship that satisfies him, according to his wording in Fifty Shades of Grey; his Dominant/Submissive nature (which later becomes a source of tension between he and Ana). Although this changes when he meets Ana.

Grey the billionaire...

Robert's picture

who insists on the lady signing pre-coitus contracts that stipulate that BDSM will be involved, that eye-contact will not be maintained and other shite. If that sounds like sexy time to you, then I don't ever want to walk by the mail-room while you're alone with the photocopier and the electric stapler.

I flicked through a copy of this cellulose turd at the book store, happened upon this plot device and put the book down never to pick it up again.

As for Rand, she liked rough sex - admitted as much. I'm 85% sure that she did not like bureaucracies or indecisive men or sterile sex and the combination of all three would, IMHO, have made her apoplectic.

Show me I'm wrong. Show me where Galt had Dagny sign a contract in triplicate, with a biohazard indemnity waiver prior to consulting the OSHA, FDA and EPA handbooks to learn how to get it on outdoors in an environmentally neutral and safe manner before ripping off her bodice and doing the deed.

As I say, you can't have an unabashed male hero in modern literature. This character is a billionaire captain of industry who "pushes a pencil" - to coin a phrase.

Robert...

Marcus's picture

...you were not paying attention, were you?

I said Grey is a wealthy businessman. In fact he is a billionaire.

Another point is when he gets it on with Steele for BDSM sex they make a contract first.

That sounds like something Rand might have thought up.

Well considering that the

Robert's picture

twilight series was also a run away best seller - I conclude that voyeuristic crap about boinking dangerous men/undead-predators sell.

If you want a deeper hypothesis to chew, have a look at how the perception of the desirable urban man has metamorphasized into a metrosexual not-too-bright, not-too-decisive sissy obsessed with hair and nail-care. Captains of industry are disparaged or are expected to be seen and not heard. Mechanics, steel-workers, plumbers, carpenters, inventors, policemen and soldiers are either imbecilic golems or foppish twats or brooding, flawed with a sullen mule-like outlook on their life and work.

Its an attack on the concept of a heroic, chivalrous, courageous, intelligent, decisive man. You can't have that vision of the ideal undiluted and unsullied in this culture - that wouldn't be "keep'n it real." The ideal male has to be flawed (so they can be saved I expect). Either he's a un-dead blood-sucking parasite fighting his psychopathic nature or he's only very slightly a paper-work obsessed misogynist with a hankering for rough sex. It's total and utter fucking nihilistic crap in the vein of "Brokeback Mountain" and a host of other bilge that I haven't the heart to list.

The only descent movie I've seen in a while is called "One for the money" (derived from the book by Janet Evanovich) and is a comedy/drama starring Katherine Heigl. It isn't particularly high-brow, but it's amusing. And although the men in this movie aren't the stars. They are men other men want to be like. The bad guys are genuinely bad and they get what's coming to them in the end. And Janet Evanovich books sell. So it isn't as if the culture is totally doomed.

And of course women like porn! Its just that they called erotic fiction and it de-emphasizes the carnal in favor of flirtation & courtship. Contrast this with male porn wherein the flirtation is merely a brief segue to breakup the otherwise boring and unrelenting stream of anatomically dubious libertine gymnastics.

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