Ranting in Londonistan

Richard Wiig's picture
Submitted by Richard Wiig on Tue, 2013-02-05 19:59

For some unknown reason this video won't embed itself, but here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&...


( categories: )

Let's go with that then. Are

Rick Giles's picture

Let's go with that then.

Are you helping or hurting Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's legacy by what you're doing?

Learn to understand the difference.

Tell me all about it.

really?

Damien Grant's picture

I'm a freedom-fighter, an activist for change

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was a freedom fighter.

You, like me, are an internet troll.

Learn to understand the difference.

Thanks Jules. I hope Richard

Rick Giles's picture

Thanks Jules. I hope Richard can confirm that.
And understand that this interpretation was very hard to extrapolate from anything said above.

This sounds serious. How seriously are we taking it when such a threat as this is supposedly able to be encapsulated by such a lousy video clip without any supporting comment? For all we know it may be isolated to one man's bedroom in his mother's house. And that's supposed to serve as the warning alarm for civilisation?

A danger worth warning about should have no ambiguity, especially when direct interest and questions are provoked. I don't see how we could take this video to the police or the army or civil defence and have it meet their standards for investigation. And mine are even higher than theirs, how about you?

I believe Richard pointing out these trends to be a warning to those that are living in areas that at this point in time do not currently suffer these societal cultural conflicts as of yet due to relatively low populations of Islamic people.

Low ratios, I guess you mean. Since it takes the clash of cultures to make conflict, not the presence of one in particular.

What did you make of his warning? Did it affect you and make you want to get ready for danger in your own country?

An abusive co-dependent

Rick Giles's picture

An abusive co-dependent relationship is what you're talking about. How can you possibly defend that?
I think he is full of shit. He presumably thinks the same about me.

Thus, hatred and abuse can be the only product of your interactions. "Happiness through anger," you say. That's very much the basis for Roahl Dahl's The Twits. No, you're not in a married relationship living together in domestic abuse but in principle it's the same. And you've picked this interaction, this way to spend your time, over and above thousands of other opportunities.

Given that we continue to throw rocks at each other, you should assume that we have our own reasons for doing so.

Bring them into the light.

Seems to me it is an issue between me and Doug.

And the world wide web.

You want the audience, you want the witness. Private emails are between you and Doug. This is public. Anybody can see that. It resembles a re-enactment of a couple fighting violently while young children have to watch on and are told they have no business, no stake in it. Or, indeed, a re-re-enactment of a marriage that went the same way. Those things should never have had to happen any more than this nonsense needs to continue.

If you're truly indifferent, if it really is just between the two of you, how does it make you feel to for a moment entertain the idea of taking this outside? Move your mutual altruism to private email if by doing so you don't lose anything from the experience.

So, either say something on the issue under discussion, or shut up.

It is you who have stopped short. Of course you have, you cannot possibly defend what you're doing but only pretend not to understand.

I'm a freedom-fighter, an activist for change. There are only a few of us. You are not helping, you are making our jobs harder by attaching our ideas and the ideas of sound economics to hatred and unhappiness. The phone-upgrade item two weeks ago, for example, had me working in damage control toward the people I've been telling about freedom. You're not helping here doing what you're doing and I think that must mean something to you so stop!

Trashing up SOLO which ought to be a palace but is turned into your mud-wrestle ring...you'd think someone would care about that...blatant unapologetic fornication against every ideal and effort that has gone into the enterprise and the guys who worked for it.

I hope you can get some help with the self-loathing problem and avoid an early grave. Very hard thing to do. Owning up would be a first step.

Rick

Jules Troy's picture

I believe what Richard is getting at is that there is a trend in european countries where muslim populations have become high there are many social issues that arise due to the differences between Islamic cultures and western culture.  This is beginning to manifest in certain areas of major cities in the form of gang violence, rape and facial mutilation of women that do not cover their faces, and throwing moltov cocktails at passing police cars.  "no go zones" for those who are not muslim.  I believe Richard pointing out these trends to be a warning to those that are living in areas that at this point in time do not currently suffer these societal cultural conflicts as of yet due to relatively low populations of Islamic people.

 

 

harassment

Rick Giles's picture

There are Muslim gangs patrolling Muslim areas of London harrassing people in order to enforce Sharia.
I mean, we have to focus on what's really important here.

I agree with you. Let's be very methodical and give our attention to what's really important.

Why is harassment in London important to you or to this forum in your best estimation? Do you have kids in London, maybe?

And how does this video demonstrate or prove your concerns? If the threat of harassment is as pressing as you seem to think then this clip seems hardly to do it justice.

If harassment is the evil you've taken to combating why is this example the best use of your time. And may we say you have defeated it in your own life and among the people you associate with?

Why London?

Richard Wiig's picture

Could you ask a more inane question??? There are Muslim gangs patrolling Muslim areas of London harrassing people in order to enforce Sharia. Perhaps it's happening in Paris too. I don't know. If you think this isn't enough of an equal opportunity thread, perhaps you could post some news from Paris, or Berlin, or maybe from another continent entirely. I mean, we have to focus on what's really important here.

Jules, didn't you know? Not

Richard Wiig's picture

Jules, didn't you know? Not all Muslims are credit card fraudsters.

Speaking of "istans"

Jules Troy's picture

http://m.usatoday.com/article/...

Biggest credit card scam ring in U.S. history.  Guess what religion the perps are?  I wonder how much of the proceeds went in to fund Al-Qaeda and other groups?  Just another form of "passive" Jihad in action.

Giles...

Damien Grant's picture

Doug and I have been baiting each other for some time now. I do not think he is mentally fragile, I think he is full of shit. He presumably thinks the same about me.

Given that we continue to throw rocks at each other, you should assume that we have our own reasons for doing so. Seems to me it is an issue between me and Doug.

So, either say something on the issue under discussion, or shut up.

Olive Oil and water

Damien Grant's picture

At least Doug is colour - fervent, judgmental and hot.

People should learn to think before they speak. Grownups should set the example by learning to shutup and align themselves to reality with more rigor.

Seriously, Olivia; Are you bi-polar?

And here's a tip from a female perspective...

Am I meant to give your views special consideration because of your gender? I’m terribly sorry* I am too beige for you, but I do not care what you think, so it doesn’t matter, does it? How about you go and give Doug a cuddle.

 

*(Hint: I do not actually give a fuck)

Sorry to help mess up

Rick Giles's picture

Sorry to help mess up Richard's thread about London, but...

Olivia, you don't sound bored at all. You come across as highly agitated and upset. Angry. Border-line abusive. That's hardly boredom. When I'm bored I stop reading. When you're bored you make two vigorous posts about it? No, you're not bored.

Everything Giles says is utterly delusional too. Men who show up here but have lost their dicks along the way because they're so preoccupied with being seen to be egalitarian and moderate make me feel very depressed about my countrymen.

It sounds like you've got some ideas about masculinity that I don't live up to but perhaps you do.

What are the men you admire in your life like and how do they live up to your ideals in a way that I don't? Very happy and interested to hear more.

My idea is that good men don't need to threaten and abuse and humiliate others in order to be strong. Also that it doesn't help the person on the receiving end but dims anything good about the message if delivered by the initiation of force. The more power one has, and men have the most, the lighter the touch is needed. But maybe you grew up with a different experience?

If no one ever disagreed with

Rick Giles's picture

If no one ever disagreed with him here he would have no-one to get angry at. I allow Doug to obtain a state of near-perfect bliss in expressing his contempt for the embodiment of everything that he hates in the world.
I, on the other hand, get annoyed at his simplistic world view and strident spouting of bullshit and like to call him on it from time to time.

An abusive co-dependent relationship is what you're talking about. How can you possibly defend that?

If he is, say, mentally damaged and traumatised by phantoms then you are his enabler. His drug dealer, his tormentor. Why wouldn't you wish him health instead? Do you got to dementia patients in old folks' homes and haunt them too? For what gain?

What is this doing for your own convictions and values? Picking fights with fools doesn't make you heroic. You can't invest your ego in besting morons and get any self-esteem out of that. If that is what you're doing at all, since you're hardly any better.

Again- what do you think you're saying about SOLO and philosophy and the values you're exploiting? Are you intending to take a fragile voice and make it into a joke toy?

And this filth!

Olivia's picture

People should say what they think, even if it is bullshit, no matter the abuse they earn for it. Equally, others should be willing to stand up and call 'Bullshit' without being fearful or bullied into toeing the line.

No. People should learn to think before they speak. Grownups should set the example by learning to shutup and align themselves to reality with more rigor. There is far too much self-expression with no content - look at art and conversation for christsakes! They are vapid today and the likes of you contribute toward that end.

Filth is a common term of accounting. It is not Doug’s term but he will earn brownie points for its application. I do not mind, I am often called much worse. Only last week I upset a few people by saying I’d rather upgrade my cell phone than send money to starving African children. Goodness me.

Brownie points from whom? Your projections are showing through along with your genitals.

You upset a few people? Oh! How cool for you being the "cool, un-cool guy" who permits himself to say slightly controversial things at dinner parties in the beige sitting-rooms of socialist New Zealand because he's bored. I bet in some little circles, some of those people might even say you're a bit of a prick, or better yet.... a "raconteur." Goodness me.

Just die.

Simpery Psychologizing!

Olivia's picture

I, on the other hand, get annoyed at his simplistic world view and strident spouting of bullshit and like to call him on it from time to time. Just so he is forced to grapple with the inconsistency of the nonsense in his mind. He will never acknowledge the points I make but it annoys him that someone has the temerity to point out that the emperor is naked. I suspect he knows that his views need to be bolstered by sophistry and ignorance and this probably annoys him even more, but he enjoys being annoyed, so it is a win-win.

Damien,you are a crashing bore. Honestly, if you were a colour, you'd be pure beige. So is Giles. You two should get married.
At least Doug is colour - fervent, judgmental and hot. Don't presume to psychologize your betters (it's very middle class).

And here's a tip from a female perspective; don't kid yourself that you could "call" anyone on anything, you're far too muted down to make any impact.

The paragraph above is utterly delusional. Everything Giles says is utterly delusional too. Men who show up here but have lost their dicks along the way because they're so preoccupied with being seen to be egalitarian and moderate make me feel very depressed about my countrymen.

Rick

Damien Grant's picture

What do you mean by saying you've made Doug "happy to be angry?"

People usually do what they want to do. Doug spends a lot of time denouncing Islam and Objectivists. He does this because he derives some utility from it, otherwise he would stop.

If no one ever disagreed with him here he would have no-one to get angry at. I allow Doug to obtain a state of near-perfect bliss in expressing his contempt for the embodiment of everything that he hates in the world.

I, on the other hand, get annoyed at his simplistic world view and strident spouting of bullshit and like to call him on it from time to time. Just so he is forced to grapple with the inconsistency of the nonsense in his mind. He will never acknowledge the points I make but it annoys him that someone has the temerity to point out that the emperor is naked. I suspect he knows that his views need to be bolstered by sophistry and ignorance and this probably annoys him even more, but he enjoys being annoyed, so it is a win-win.

Where likeminded people congregate there is a rush to the extreme. Take a political party. The person who takes the most strident position usually wins.

“Our political opponent is an evil monster!”

If you disagree with this, saying only that the political opponent is merely wrong, you run the risk of being denounced as weak, disloyal, soft. So weak people tend to be silent and the strident extremists usually win.

To say Islam, Obama, whatever, is not evil, demonic and the end of civilisation, is seen as being weak, soft, compromising with the enemies of civilisation.

Filth is a common term of accounting. It is not Doug’s term but he will earn brownie points for its application. I do not mind, I am often called much worse. Only last week I upset a few people by saying I’d rather upgrade my cell phone than send money to starving African children. Goodness me.

People should say what they think, even if it is bullshit, no matter the abuse they earn for it. Equally, others should be willing to stand up and call 'Bullshit' without being fearful or bullied into toeing the line.

 

The true debate has now

Rick Giles's picture

The true debate has now begun.

What you were doing before was making a brothel of the site and what you're doing now is inviting me in to have virtual sex with idiots.

Why did you donate to this site and do you value reason and truth?

What do you mean by saying you've made Doug "happy to be angry?"

RG the Second

Damien Grant's picture

why don't you contribute to the debate and stop debating the debating.

Was toasties, not

Rick Giles's picture

Was toasties, not pancakes.

Why? Idle sport.

Doug can rant back. It will make him happy to be angry at my ignorance and wilful cowardly appeasement.

Yelling at each other gives us both some amusement and relieves the boredom of pointless lives certain to come to an end before this century is out.

It's a very base, self-loathing, form of idle amusement. You can write and you can think and you've elected to do this with your talents? When did you start to consider your life pointless? This is as near to joy as you can come?

I'm also obliged to say that you are degrading philosophy and freedom by demoting it to idle sport. You're wasting the energy of people who could be bringing their convictions into the world. You're diverting passion away from rational thought and into the bitter entertainment of an old man whose sense of life has left him? What will new kids think who look in on this forum wondering if they've found a place to nurture their sentiments and rationality to see you joking this way. Or, worse, you really meaning it? SOLO was to facilitate revolution, growth, and benevolence not to provide sadomasochistic parlour thrills.

I see you donated to SOLO. Were you paying in order to be able to do this?

there...what did I tell you.

Damien Grant's picture

Doug will be at peace now, having ranted in full force his frustration.

The flaw in his logic is apparent, however, by this contradiction;

ISLAM IS NOT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION........It doesn't matter if most Muslims don't wage Jihad. True Muslims provide moral support for Jihad.

Untrue Muslims, of which there are about 1,499,909,999* on the planet, do not give a flying fuck about Jihad. Many of them probably hate the west, despise Israel, do not mind seeing our buildings getting blown up and are genuinely indifferent to the progress of their Jihadist brothers, but other than their higher fertility rate are about as much as a threat to the west as cooked horse meat.

I suspect Doug has never been outside Alabama, so I understand that if his world view is obtained from reading anti-Islamic websites written by uneducated gamers who live with their deceased mother it would be possible to see Muslims as a monolithic evil empire dedicated to female gentile mutilation, honour killing and suicide vests.

If he was to drag himself away from whatever enclosed world that he lives, he may see that the world is a lot more complex and that the simple axiom that ‘your enemies enemy is your friend’ holds in this situation.

France would be unable to kick the Jihadists out of Northern Mali without the assistiance of the southern, africian, muslim, anti-Jihadist government.

He may be right about the backwards nature of Africian Muslims, I have no idea, (neither does he I suspect). I have never been to that part of the world and have no view. But I do know that they are not Jihadists even though they are Muslims. 

Facts, you see. Helpful things. It allows you to look at the world and try and decide who wants to kill you and who does not. If you do not want to get killed, it helps to put your efforts into fighting those who actually are trying to kill you, as opposed to those who merely do not like you. Even if the later may wish you dead, so long as they are not going to actually do anything about it, perhaps best to leave them the fuck alone.

 If Doug was on the savannah he’d be yelling at every Meer cat screaming ‘lion’. It is a wonder his ancestors had the energy to find food. 

* This is a completly made up number. It has no basis in anything. Just making a point. 


not even a clue

Doug Bandler's picture

We attacked and invaded two countries, captured and tortured thousands and fly drones over our enemies and bomb and kill them.

You are a brain dead idiot if you think Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of bold warfare meant to defeat an enemy. THEY ARE EXAMPLES OF MASSIVE SUPPLICATION THE PURPOSE OF WHICH IS TO EMBOLDEN ISLAM AND DEMORALIZE US. They are grounded on egalitarian and altruist premises and they deny that we are at war with Islam. They are nation building efforts based on a fantasy. And you think they are war? Fucking moron.

You are deluded and disengaged from reality. You want to ban a religion? How comprehensively ignorant of history do you have to be to think that is going to work? Have you ever read a book?

Ban an enemy religion from the West asshole. Let me ask you, how many Muslims were there in America before the 1960s? Yeah that's right idiot. Almost none. I'm suggesting that we remove the Muslim presence and ban the fucking religion BECAUSE IT IS A WAR MOVEMENT. If the America of the 1950s had been confronted with Islamic Jihad, you can rest assure that is what they would have done.

There, you politically naive, historically deluded ignoramus, you will see African Muslims engaged with French troops on a campaign to kill jihadists.

Oh god are you lost. African Muslims are some of the most vicious, blood thirsty people on this earth. You buy into tokens, empty tokens. And you think you are enlightened.

Muslim does not equal Jihadist.

YES IT DOES YOU FUCKING MORON. ISLAM IS NOT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION. IT IS DEFINED BY ITS PROPHET. ITS PROPHET WAGED CEASELESS WAR AGAINST NON-BELIEVERS. TO BE HOLY IN ISLAM IS TO HATE INFIDELS THAT DO NOT SUBMIT. SUPPORTING JIHAD IS A DUTY IN THAT FUCKING CESSPOOL OF A RELIGION. SUBLIMITY FOR MUSLIMS IS ADVANCING THE HOUSE OF ISLAM UNTIL IT CONQUERS THE WHOLE GODDAMN EARTH!!!!!

It doesn't matter if most Muslims don't wage Jihad. True Muslims provide moral support for Jihad. They must. Their religion mandates it and some will ALWAYS follow through on the actual fighting.

If there were really 1.5b Jihadists, do you think there would be a single building standing in the west?

There don't need to be 1.5b Jihadists. The total number of Jihadists will be small. But there are 1.5 billion Muslims and their religion MANDATES holy war. EVERY TRUE MUSLIM MUST SUPPORT THE WAR. THEY DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT IT. That's the diabolical genius of this religion. Its a religion of war and plunder created by a brigand which unleashed the rage of a violent tribal people against the whole fucking world. And you defend it.

YOU ARE FILTH.

RG II

Damien Grant's picture

Why? Idle sport.

Doug can rant back. It will make him happy to be angry at my ignorance and wilful cowardly appeasement.

He can denounce me as an Islamic appeaser, craven in the face of an obvious threat, a weak-kneed liberal who is ignorant, stupid, confused and unwilling to face the hard threat that the west is being over-run by a violent and dangerous religion, that I cannot see the fifth column in our midst and my stupidity is endemic in the west and the very cause of its impending downfall.

Yelling at each other gives us both some amusement and relieves the boredom of pointless lives certain to come to an end before this century is out.

So, unless you are engaged in the debate, how about you go and make some pancakes?

You are deluded and disengaged from reality?

Rick Giles's picture

Try and get that FACT into your simplistic, black and white, good and bad simplistic tiny single-celled brain of yours. If there is room for actual reason, which clearly there isn’t, your idiotic world view would collapse as fast as the Jihadists ran from Timbuktu.

Why are you talking to this guy at all if you don't think he has a brain?

Could it be that you think abuse is going to bring enlightenment?

Who is deluded and disengaged from reality really? Do you have so much time to burn that it's worth it to talk to people this way?

In my opinion you've got to either disengage from this topic or else do so in a respectful manner. Not to suggest you've got some good reason for this rage, I'm sure you have.

rant, insane, rant, noise

Damien Grant's picture

It amazes me that there are libertarians and Objectivists that still don't see that Islam is a military movement and as such it should be banned. I see the passivity in response to Islam post 9/11 as prima facia evidence of modern society's de facto insanity.

We attacked and invaded two countries, captured and tortured thousands and fly drones over our enemies and bomb and kill them.

Since you seem to like iconoclastic language, here is some back at you.

You are deluded and disengaged from reality. You want to ban a religion? How comprehensively ignorant of history do you have to be to think that is going to work? Have you ever read a book?

Allah wept.

And if you cannot read history books open a fucking newspaper website and google Mali.

There, you politically naive, historically deluded ignoramus, you will see African Muslims engaged with French troops on a campaign to kill jihadists.

Try and get that FACT into your simplistic, black and white, good and bad simplistic tiny single-celled brain of yours. If there is room for actual reason, which clearly there isn’t, your idiotic world view would collapse as fast as the Jihadists ran from Timbuktu. 

You may also want to google Algeria in the news section and see how the Muslim Arab government there deals with Jihadists terrorists.

Muslim does not equal Jihadist. Simple stuff. All Jihadists are Muslim does not equate to all Muslims are Jihadists. 

You are not a brave speaker of truth. You are a simple man with a single idea. The fact that the west is weak, cowardly, afraid to tackle its enemies and probably contains the very seeds of its own destruction in its liberal bias, does not mean that your idiotic nonsense contains any validity. 

Look at the way the world is, Doug. Actually stop and look. If there were really 1.5b Jihadists, do you think there would be a single building standing in the west? 

You need maturity, wisdom, common sense, and a reality-oriented understanding of the world in which you live.

Yes, you do, Doug. Try and get some.

 

OK, let's do this

Rick Giles's picture

It had no point, other than to point out the goings-on of the shit that is on the streets of London.
Your point was not to keep this forum appraised of the goings-on of London street shit.
Well you should accept it, Rick, because that's all that was intended. The free will comment was merely spillover, an afterthought. Anyway, if you want to talk about Islam, fire away.

I don't if it turns out you don't. Let's talk about the streets of London, then.

Why London? I like to keep tabs on places I've been- what's your ties to London as opposed to the streets of Paris or Pittsburgh that made you want to share it?

If you are trying to inform people about the situation in London isn't this clip a bit slim for us to extrapolate from? I don't know what to take from it and wish you'd say. Doesn't seem like a fair representation of the good and bad of London or even a clear picture of the worst.

Islam is and always will be EVIL

Doug Bandler's picture

It amazes me that there are libertarians and Objectivists that still don't see that Islam is a military movement and as such it should be banned. I see the passivity in response to Islam post 9/11 as prima facia evidence of modern society's de facto insanity. A sane culture would have responded with HATRED towards Islam. Muslims would have been SHAMED if not outright deported. Pre-1950s America would have responded that way. But they were a 90% white mostly non-Leftist country back then that shared a common culture. What the fuck are we?

The only thing I hate more than Islam is the Left. They are the two great evils in the modern world. But mainstream O'ism is concerned with allowing everyone from the four corners of the globe to immigrate here to their heart's content because they all "want to make a better life."

You need more than a good philosophy to live a good life or change the culture for the better. You need maturity, wisdom, common sense, and a reality-oriented understanding of the world in which you live. 98% of Objectivists don't have that. Binswanger doesn't, the Hsieh's don't, Biddle doesn't, Ari Armstrong doesn't ( what a fucking understatement that is), Yaron Brook doesn't, etc, etc, etc..

Rand.Is.Spinning.And.Spitting.In.Her.Grave.

Well you should accept it,

Richard Wiig's picture

Well you should accept it, Rick, because that's all that was intended. The free will comment was merely spillover, an afterthought. Anyway, if you want to talk about Islam, fire away.

Islam's chief cheerleader President B.O.

gregster's picture

Alan Caruba: "When President Obama gave a speech in Cairo on January 25, 2009, it was portrayed as an outreach to the Middle East and Islam. Seated in the front row at Cairo University, however, was the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood. The speech asked Muslims to define themselves “not by national or ethnic identity, but by their religion.”

What followed was the overthrow of the Mubarak regime and the election of Mohamed Morsi, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood as president, a victory for its 84-year struggle for power in the land of its birth. How radical is the Muslim Brotherhood? In January on Holocaust Remembrance Day, a key figure in Morsi’s government, Fathi Shihab-Eddim, called the Holocaust a hoax cooked up by U.S. intelligence operatives, saying that the six million Jews killed by the Nazis in World War II had simply moved to the U.S.

Such views are widely held by Muslims and reflect Islam’s hatred of Jews, but most Americans remain oblivious to the fact that Islam hates Christianity and all other religions. The official policy of the U.S. is to ignore this and to support the Morsi regime. Morsi is on record saying that Jews are “apes and pigs.” The 1979 peace treaty between Israel and Egypt is now just an illusion."

Insha’Allah

Richard Goode's picture

Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.” As it is, you boast in your arrogant schemes. All such boasting is evil. If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. (NIV)

London goings-on, a special report

Rick Giles's picture

I'm quite genuine, as always. Feedback welcome on how I can improve that perception. Do you want to go on?

This thread, btw, wasn't really about free will and its consquences. It had no point, other than to point out the goings-on of the shit that is on the streets of London.

I can't accept that since asking you about it did generate ties back to free will and your frustration at not being able to change R and D's minds. That came from you not from any leading question of mine. It's a legitimate connection and probably quite shrewd as we'll see.

Everything we do has a point. Your point was not to keep this forum appraised of the goings-on of London street shit. Nobody paying you proper attention and respect would be misdirected that easily. To even try suggests you must be used to dealing with people who don't pay you proper attention and respect because that response of yours evolved in order to topple smaller minds than mine. Whose?

Rick, I am reluctant to

Richard Wiig's picture

Rick, I am reluctant to engage you. I don't like game playing, and so often you appear to be just playing games. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the consequences of a world in which free will is considered an historical fallacy. It would be a world without morality, without the possibility of making a wrong decision, a world full of people who cannot help themselves. Civilisation could not withstand that.

This thread, btw, wasn't really about free will and its consquences. It had no point, other than to point out the goings-on of the shit that is on the streets of London.

I was quoting Richard, asking

Rick Giles's picture

ie Elaborate?

Trying to get some attention and support to why you posted this link and its like pulling teeth. would you rather not be asked? I'm doing my best to listen.
__
Could you expand on that
please?
What kind of a world do you
envisage if it's impossible to make a wrong decision?

I was quoting Richard, asking

Rick Giles's picture

I was quoting Richard, asking for him to expand (not as sexy as it sounds.)


Have to pass for now.
How can I put this politely?

"Dear Mr Giles, I want to interact with you and contribute to unearthing Richards concerns about autonomy's plight in Islam's cockney shadow.

"For reasons I can't go into, your welcome participation in a vitriolic and abusive thread would make sense of what I'm saying in this one and save me the job of cutting and pasting. Thankyou in advance and hope you had a nice Waitangi holiday.

"Damian."

Could you expand on that

Richard Wiig's picture

Could you expand on that please?

What kind of a world do you envisage if it's impossible to make a wrong decision?

Rick

Damien Grant's picture

You are asking me to expand on your own statement?

Have to pass for now.

How can I put this politely?

If you want me to invest my time in answering your quesitons then have the courtsey to read what the frick I have already posted on the topic.

FFS.

Read it. Then comment.

Rick Giles's picture

Had a glance, have to pass for now. But I hope you will consider what I've written to you here.

What do you associate with people who are without free will?

As far as I know RG and Damien are strangers to you so I don't follow why you are invested in their consistency of thought. What is at stake if these two never realise your concerns about free will?

If the concept of free will is gone from the minds of men, we end up with hell on earth.

Could you expand on that please?

Are you saying that you think not convincing these two guys about the threat of radical Islam is going to ruin your life?

RG number two

Damien Grant's picture

go to the free will thread.

Read it.

Then comment.

Metaphysical or not is

Richard Wiig's picture

Metaphysical or not is irrelevant. If the concept of free will is gone from the minds of men, we end up with hell on earth. Rather than Allah weeping, he'll be smiling from ear to ear. A perfect world for sick fucking perverts all round.

Not metaphysics

Rick Giles's picture

You decide what answer you can live with and then look no further.

Lacks the ring of objectivity, that. I want to believe the truth not believe what I can live with.

Your free will cannot be taken away, you either have it, or you do not.

Metaphysically? Sure.

The context for the conversation at hand though is everyday free will, I think. Classical and operant conditioning. Religious indoctrination. PTSD. Clockwork Orange. Guy on TV selling it looked happy. Girl drinking coke looked slim. Car salesman told me I looked like a man who could make quick decisions without consulting my wife.
That sort of thing.

Can you remember a time when you were influenced by something like that?

RG (no D)

Damien Grant's picture

When I think about having my free will taken away I get the image of being a leaf in the wind, without say in my own life.

Well then, if you do not like the idea, best you do not consider it. You decide what answer you can live with and then look no further.

Your free will cannot be taken away, you either have it, or you do not. If the determinists are right then you do not have it, never have, then your life will be no different to what it is now.

Allah wept.

Usurping Kant

Richard Goode's picture

Islam is the perfect manifestation of a worldview devoid if Free Will. It's ironic that RG professes to be a Christian, which he says is good, and recognises Islam as evil, which he says he opposes, while promoting one of the very things that makes Islam evil. Inshallah is the perfect concept for both RG and Damien.

I'm usurping Kant. He's been the most evil man in mankind's history for far too long.

Sick fucking perverts

gregster's picture

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – A Saudi cleric says even girls who have not yet reached puberty should be covered from head to toe, citing instances of child molestation in the ultraconservative kingdom and elsewhere.

Sheik Abdullah Daoud made the remarks on the satellite channel al-Majd. He says many viewers watching the program had probably come across instances of sexual harassment as children.

He is not affiliated with the government nor considered a senior sheik.

Judge Mohammed al-Jazlani, a senior sheik, said Monday that such talk denigrates Islam and may push non-Muslims to view Islam negatively. He urged Saudis to ignore unofficial fatwas, or edicts.

Separately, a spokesman for Saudi Arabia's religious police said online that the force can oblige a woman to cover her face "if her eyes are seditious." He did not elaborate.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2...

Islam is the perfect

Rick Giles's picture

Islam is the perfect manifestation of a worldview devoid of Free Will.

What do you associate with people who are without free will?

When I think about having my free will taken away I get the image of being a leaf in the wind, without say in my own life. Peer pressure. Regimentation. My preferences and purchasing decisions influenced and estranged from my own muffled preferences. And you?

It's ironic that RG [...] recognises Islam as evil [...] while promoting one of the very things that makes Islam evil.

As far as I know RG and Damien are strangers to you so I don't follow why you are invested in their consistency of thought. What is at stake if these two never realise your concerns about free will?

Islam is the perfect

Richard Wiig's picture

Islam is the perfect manifestation of a worldview devoid if Free Will. It's ironic that RG professes to be a Christian, which he says is good, and recognises Islam as evil, which he says he opposes, while promoting one of the very things that makes Islam evil. Inshallah is the perfect concept for both RG and Damien.

I had no point to make in

Richard Wiig's picture

I had no point to make in posting it, but yes, I do have thoughts about it. None of them about the production technique.

Might be a personal

Rick Giles's picture

Might be a personal preference of mine and no more but when people add content I really wish they'd put some of themselves into it rather than just dropping links. We'd get more value out of your contribution if you'd add your own thoughts and I know you've got them.

You slapped this one down to make a point but I'm not quite sure what it is?

Maybe that England is under threat by one non-too stealthy guy who doesn't take his own message production and delivery very seriously?

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